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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 1775189" data-attributes="member: 5777">Actually, the psychic warrior had a 'much' higher spot and listen even after your second build. When I pointed it out you said that it didnt matter much. Even though the psychic warrior was likely to be able to notice pretty much anyone not maxed out in move silently and maxed dex (as he had somewhere near a +30 to both) whereas the fighter spent a few of his very few skill points to try to not always be caught flat footed. The difference between the two is huge.Also, I take it that while in battle no one else every joins in in your games? Sound attracts others that are nearby, sometimes people will retreat and come back, other times reinforcements might've been called, or a number of other things. In those cases having the high spot and listen can help a very great deal. The summonings already tend to have scent so they will be able to get past invis incredibly easier than the construct can.Also, since the summonings have int then they can warn the summoner about enemies approaching or something not being right, even if the construct notices something it wont warn anyone. They are there if ever needed or ever useful for whatever reason.The lantern archon has both diplomacy and sense motive. Given that it takes 10 rounds for diplomacy it may not always be useful, but sometimes, especially say with it lasting 12 rounds, one could summon it in, ask it to talk your way past someone, or to sit there and sense motive to tell you if they are lieing (this would work with a shorter duration possibly).Of course with spot one can also read lips, so if you see a group of people talking a ways away one could summon up the archon, send it on over, and have it read some lips then zip back and tell you what it heard.The lanturn archon can also sit there and move around behind your guys while fighting and keep on casting aid on whoever. This can be a nice little boost at times.It isnt that these abilities are always useful, it is that they are there if needed.Yeth hound is another nice one. Track, scent, pretty good search and survival checks, flight, bay, trip.. this guy is just a pile of abilities <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />It doesnt last very long, but then one is not always tracking for hours and hours, sometimes one just needs to know which way the badguy went and which door.. this guy can be summoned up and chase after them. With decent saves and DR 10/silver he will likely be able to even trip a few traps while chasing the guy and not have to worry.They tend to have sent, they tend to have skills that can help, and they tend to be able to let you know if they notice something amis.Is that better?Piling up hay bails is a single task, tell them to do it and they will. If one of those hay barrels starts to tip over because they didnt stack it properly they wont try to stop it, at best they will pick up the fallen bails and stack them again, at worst they will simply leave them on the ground as they were already 'stacked'. I did not say 'incapable of following instructions' not even close. I even made sure to say that it can follow instructions, even ones that would seem to be complex (such as fighting). However, any task that does require int to do, or something to think through, it will not be able to do. It is like a computer that can only except very small programs. I know that there is a better quote somewhere, but the only one I can find right now is, 'When you control a mindless being, you can communicate only basic commands, such as “come here,” “go there,” “fight,” “stand still,” and so on'So, while 'stack hay bails' might be ok, 'walk over there and tie the rope to that' would take two seperate commands. Of course one might have to guide it through how to tie the knot.::shrugs:: there are spells out there that do so. As most creatures who cast spells will be intelligent enough to know constructs have certain immunities (and really, if the lack of a real body doesnt tip off even the more dense ones then likely you could've just told them that they were dead and they would believe you).Still, int 3 isnt much better than this, really it isnt better at all, it is about the same. However, there are much higher int guys who are floating around the list.There are a few more on the psionic side though that hinder the constructs. A nice little one that comes to mind is 'control body'. Now 'that' is a rough one! Make the biggest construct you have, toughen him all out, only to have the opposing manifestor take him over and beat you with it. Of course, the construct is dismissable, but that takes a standard action to accomplish. (of course, the spell is very vague in what exactly it effects, undead dont really have much for physiology, but constructs likely arent effected, still, it is fun to think about <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> )Still, that is just fun to think about. Really, anything that isnt on their list of immunities they are very weak against.Not every construct will have these, especially if they want some other ability instead. Say, like SR. For the 8th level construct he can trade in his single menu C ability to make his touch ac into an 18 (say, 16th level mage = +8, +4 from dex should be pretty easy, this is a success 75% of the time. But, if he doesnt do this (or if he gets heavy deflection from menu B instead) then it is a 95% chance. So, if they make the construct in such a way that it is 'just in case he is going to get disintegrated' or 'he needs to beef up his ac to stick around onger' instead of 'I want any other ability at all' then it wont hit very often.Having an extra couple of percent to hit from any number of other sources is not very unlikely either, this is just the base guy (say, a bard in the party who is useing some song, some random buff spell up, the party pitched in for the banner that half of the builds on the fighter/psychic warrior thread had.. for only 30k the whole party gets +2 to a bunch of things.. oop, whole party, except that the construct is immune even if he is in your party, he wont get a bonus from the bard or from the banner, whereas pretty much all of the summonings will)Same can be said for any of the summonings or constructs. But then, the summonings can make multiple targets at once <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />The magic circles I have not seen to be very prevalent, but perhaps they are in your games. Still, they only work against the proper alignment. If you know what alignment someone is then you can summon a creature of the same alignment so that they will not be able to hedge out your guy. Same goes for holy word. Dismissal is so incredibly specific that I dont think it really has a place here. Single target, only extraplanar creatures (which it may not be), SR and a will save. If you thought disintegrate has a chance of not working then this guy is right out. Also, if we are discounting spells that work specifically on the astral constructs but not much else then this spell is yet again way left out. Even beyond that, while the creatures have a template they do not necissarily come 'from' anywhere (ie they may not be extraplanar, depending on the dm).  I think you are misunderstanding. The sorc isnt really all that far behind in damage, sometimes he was even ahead in the comparison given before.The thing about the extra damage later is that the sorc is still doing something at all, whereas the psion is just twiddling his thumbs. The sorc can still deal a large amount of damage if needed, the sorc can still use a pile of utility spells, the sorc is simply still active.Does it make more sense now?Yep, but all this means is that the psions direct damage will actually be useful instead of an entire party member being out to dry if he picked his spells poorly.Good? yes. Broken/overpowered? nope, it merely fixes the problem that was there.Ahh.. now we get to horribly, incredibly broken and overpowered spells.Too many spells have most of the components, many have vocal, somatic, and material. Is this really necissary? no, but still it is done anyway.This one spell can counter nearly every spell in the book. No need to roll a dipel check to counter, no need to have the proper spell prepared, nothing.This spell is horribly unbalanced. It has a ton of utility uses that are very good and its combat potential is so incredible as to be insane.It is not a point against the psions that they are not so easily countered, it is yet another point against the brokeness of some parts of the magic system. Further supporting my statement of psionics being the most balanced form of magic yet <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />This is different than every other caster how? There are even nonmagical items that can help do the same thing.You dislike move actions that much? why?</blockquote>

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