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<blockquote data-quote="Guest 6801328" data-source="post: 7480131">You are, of course, just talking about mechanical character development.&nbsp; There's all sorts of interesting...more interesting, IMO...&quot;character development&quot; that doesn't require rules.&nbsp; Every week that I play a character he/she develops further, usually without leveling.Codswallop.&nbsp; You are defining &quot;hardcore&quot; in an overly narrow way.&nbsp; &nbsp; This threw me a little.&nbsp; Maybe you are taking options and rules and complexity and combining that with leveling time, as if they are all part and parcel.&nbsp; They're not.&nbsp; While I think 5e has too many options already, I also think the leveling happens way too fast.&nbsp; I like campaigns that last for years, where you really feel invested in your character.&nbsp; It's one of my biggest complaints about 5e.I think most people like more adventures, more campaign settings, etc.&nbsp; But many of us don't like what happens to a game when too many mechanical character choices are offered: all of the sudden players starting finding bizarre combinations whose only positive attribute is MOAR POWAH, and then they slap on a character concept as an afterthought.&nbsp; It changes the emphasis of the game, in negative ways.Now that part I do agree with.&nbsp; That's another one of the flaws of 5e (and previous editions) in my mind.Again with that narrow, selective use of &quot;hardcore&quot;.&nbsp; It's simply a different emphasis.&nbsp; Imagine two players:Player #1 plays 4 nights a week in 4 different campaigns, 2 of which he DMs.&nbsp; In between he follows others' streaming games, builds elaborate 3D sets for his adventures, puts together soundtracks and creates elaborate parchment player handouts, and he puts hour and hours into drawing sketches of character and NPCs.&nbsp; But he doesn't allow any supplements at his table: it's straight PHB, with no feats or multiclassing.Player #2 plays twice a month, and in between he reads various forums to figure out how to optimize his character mechanically, because at his table all supplements, UA, and many homebrew options are all allowed.Who is more &quot;hardcore&quot;?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Guest 6801328, post: 7480131"] You are, of course, just talking about [I]mechanical[/I] character development. There's all sorts of interesting...more interesting, IMO..."character development" that doesn't require rules. Every week that I play a character he/she develops further, usually without leveling. Codswallop. You are defining "hardcore" in an overly narrow way. This threw me a little. Maybe you are taking options and rules and complexity and combining that with leveling time, as if they are all part and parcel. They're not. While I think 5e has too many options already, I also think the leveling happens way too fast. I like campaigns that last for years, where you really feel invested in your character. It's one of my biggest complaints about 5e. I think most people like more adventures, more campaign settings, etc. But many of us don't like what happens to a game when too many mechanical character choices are offered: all of the sudden players starting finding bizarre combinations whose only positive attribute is MOAR POWAH, and then they slap on a character concept as an afterthought. It changes the emphasis of the game, in negative ways. Now that part I do agree with. That's another one of the flaws of 5e (and previous editions) in my mind. Again with that narrow, selective use of "hardcore". It's simply a different emphasis. Imagine two players: Player #1 plays 4 nights a week in 4 different campaigns, 2 of which he DMs. In between he follows others' streaming games, builds elaborate 3D sets for his adventures, puts together soundtracks and creates elaborate parchment player handouts, and he puts hour and hours into drawing sketches of character and NPCs. But he doesn't allow any supplements at his table: it's straight PHB, with no feats or multiclassing. Player #2 plays twice a month, and in between he reads various forums to figure out how to optimize his character mechanically, because at his table all supplements, UA, and many homebrew options are all allowed. Who is more "hardcore"? [/QUOTE]

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