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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Caliburn101" data-source="post: 6919455" data-attributes="member: 6802178">I threw 300 Gnolls and an Ogre Magi at a party of 5 11th level characters who were themselves defending a fortress with NPC help...... they nearly died.That encounter with Orcus should have been under circumstances he controlled (check his Int score for a guide on how devious to go...) and with him surrounded by many, many undead and demons.I will have Orcus in my game in the not too distant future, and the party will be 17th+. I guarantee you they will feel they have been in a fight!Just don't go strictly with the CR rules - use them as a very loose guide and encounter build yourself - you'll get better results. The CR system is the weakest part of 5th Ed. by far.</blockquote>