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<blockquote data-quote="AaronOfBarbaria" data-source="post: 6919585" data-attributes="member: 6701872">In an objective sense, it is there, so it does count.In a subjective sense, what &quot;barely counts&quot; to you is &quot;everything needed&quot; to me.I don't think tuning the game's default to assume a particular level, other than the minimum possible level, of optimization makes sense from an accessibility standpoint - it would only serve as an arbitrary &quot;must be this tall to ride&quot;, while tuning the game to not expect optimization and hope that those folks that like to optimize will either A) enjoy that doing so actually makes their character beat the tar out of things instead of feeling like they had to squeeze out all that performance just to get by; B) choose to optimize their enjoyment by tailoring their character building choices to the challenge level of the game, instead of over-shooting what they consider a fun challenge by aiming for peak performance without other considerations; or C) be willing and able to crank up the opposition their characters face to achieve the level of challenge they want, but would otherwise deny themselves by choosing to optimize their character for peak performance even when they don't want that to mean out-performing their opposition.I also don't think it is fair to say &quot;My group used all these optional rules and playtest materials in our campaign&quot; and consider it a fault in the game, that had no idea whether you would actually be using any of that stuff or not and didn't want to force you to, that things didn't pan out exactly how you think they should have.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AaronOfBarbaria, post: 6919585, member: 6701872"] In an objective sense, it is there, so it does count. In a subjective sense, what "barely counts" to you is "everything needed" to me. I don't think tuning the game's default to assume a particular level, other than the minimum possible level, of optimization makes sense from an accessibility standpoint - it would only serve as an arbitrary "must be this tall to ride", while tuning the game to not expect optimization and hope that those folks that like to optimize will either A) enjoy that doing so actually makes their character beat the tar out of things instead of feeling like they had to squeeze out all that performance just to get by; B) choose to optimize their enjoyment by tailoring their character building choices to the challenge level of the game, instead of over-shooting what they consider a fun challenge by aiming for peak performance without other considerations; or C) be willing and able to crank up the opposition their characters face to achieve the level of challenge they want, but would otherwise deny themselves by choosing to optimize their character for peak performance even when they don't want that to mean out-performing their opposition. I also don't think it is fair to say "My group used all these optional rules and playtest materials in our campaign" and consider it a fault in the game, that had no idea whether you would actually be using any of that stuff or not and didn't want to force you to, that things didn't pan out exactly how you think they should have. [/QUOTE]

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