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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 4753536" data-attributes="member: 2011">If the DM plays within the boundaries he is given, it is not nearly as cheesy as it seems on the surface.It can work at low levels.At higher levels, it requires a special magic item and possibly the Skill Focus feat to get it to even quasi work except for a few classes (Paladin, Warlock, Bard, and Sorcerer) or builds.Level 1: Chaladin with 18 Cha needs a 14 to succeed against a same level foe. Against a foe 3 levels higher, he needs a 17. (5 more if the Paladin does not share a language with the creature, 2 less if the Paladin is Dragonborn or has some other bonus to intimidate like an FR regional bonus).Level 15: Same Chaladin with 22 Cha needs a 19 to succeed against a same level foe. Against a foe 3 levels higher, he needs a 22.Level 25: Same Chaladin with 25 Cha needs a 23 to succeed against a same level foe. Against a foe 3 levels higher, he needs a 26. He would need to explicitly take the +6 Iron or Spite or Screaming Armor and the Skill Focus feat to have any reasonable chance of success (shy of his allies doing Aid Another).Classes like Fighter would have a real difficult time getting this to work, even though Intimidate is on their class skill list because it is unlikely that they will have a good starting Charisma, nor would they bump Charisma.Intimidate also works just as well against the PCs as it does against monsters. In fact, it works better most of the time. So, a DM should feel justified to use it against the Paladin (or a different low Will PC), just like the Paladin uses it against monsters. And it's debatable as to if a PC is healed whether he is no longer intimidated. Plus, a DM is justified in stating that a creature immune to fear is also immune to intimidate (it does not have the fear keyword, but fear is what intimidate is all about, granted, there are few such monsters). And, the DC does not have to be Will +10. The skills states that the DM can make it anything he wants. So, he is justified in giving a bonus to lower level mooks that have a strong leader (or whatever).Plus, about 1 monster in 4 in the MM have the skill. So, if a PC intimidates a monster to surrender, some monsters can intimidate it to start fighting again.So sure, it can work for some classes. It just doesn't seem to show up a lot (at least in our games) because of its limited chance of success (without the second feat). For example, our PC Rogue has the skill at level 2 at +9 (Tiefling Rogue with 16 Cha). His chance of success with a same level foe is 30% (he needs a 15). Higher level foes are even harder. Since it takes up a Standard Action, it's more of a last ditch effort.Can a group of PCs use up a lot of resources (Intimidate PC takes Linguist feats and Skill Focus, re-rolls from abilities or powers, etc.) to make this work often? Sure. Does it happen in a lot of games? Maybe. Maybe not. Probably not a lot in most games.</blockquote>

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