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<blockquote data-quote="outsider" data-source="post: 3712385" data-attributes="member: 54690">What's so bad about these abilities?&nbsp; They are definitely WoW-like(at least the knight is, I don't recall how the other things listed work).&nbsp; However, saying they are bad simply because they are like WoW isn't rational.&nbsp; A good mechanic is a good mechanic wherever it comes from, as is a bad one.&nbsp; Source isn't all that relevant.I really miss my D&amp;D playing days.&nbsp; I haven't had a good group to play with in years.&nbsp; WoW is one of many games that I've used to fill that void, and I think that D&amp;D could definitely make alot of improvements by emulating certain aspects of WoW.&nbsp; Playing a fighter or rogue in WoW is alot more fun than it is in D&amp;D, for example.Rogues are something I'm fairly familiar with in both systems.&nbsp; In D&amp;D, for the most part, a rogue tries to move into a flanking position and do a sneak attack.&nbsp; He does that every single round.&nbsp; If he has hide in plain sight(or some other sneak enabler), he does that every round.&nbsp; A WoW rogue has a wide assortment of abilities and attacks at his disposal, each with different benefits and drawbacks.&nbsp; Combat for a D&amp;D rogue looks like this:Flank, sneak attack, flank, sneak attack, flank, sneak attack, flank, sneak attack, flank, sneak attack, flank, sneak attack, flank, sneak attack, flank, sneak attack, flank, sneak attack, flank, sneak attack, continuing like this for the entire lifetime of the character.Combat for a WoW rogue looks like this:Cheap shot, mutilate, kidney shot, cold blood, mutilate, eviscerate(if it will kill the opponent) otherwise gouge(or blind), stealth, cheap shot, mutilate, eviscerate.&nbsp; This is just my default combat routine.&nbsp; I still have many other attacks available that I could use if the above chain is suboptimal for some reason, not to mention a wide variety of defenses and other non attack abilities.To me, combat as a WoW rogue is infinitely more fun than combat as a D&amp;D rogue, and I don't see how anybody could argue otherwise.&nbsp; Spellcasters have had the &quot;different ability every round&quot; playstyle since the beginning(via spellcasting), but for some reason non casters have basically been stuck with &quot;I attack the monster with my sword&quot;.&nbsp; This needs to change, drastically.&nbsp; 3rd(and 3.5) took a step in the right direction with feats.&nbsp; However, you pretty much had to devote all your feats to a single style of fighting in order to be effective with it.&nbsp; So, instead of &quot;I attack the monster with my sword&quot; every round, you are instead stuck with &quot;I trip the monster with my spiked chain&quot; every round.&nbsp; Book of 9 Swords was pretty much exactly what melee characters needed, and I really hope that 4th ed follows that trend(though obviously they need to flavor it more appropriately).I'm also looking forward to officially supported online play.&nbsp; It'd be nice to have a group to play with again.&nbsp; Hopefully they come up with some good tools for finding a group, as I find that to be a weakness to the various current methods of playing D&amp;D online.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="outsider, post: 3712385, member: 54690"] What's so bad about these abilities? They are definitely WoW-like(at least the knight is, I don't recall how the other things listed work). However, saying they are bad simply because they are like WoW isn't rational. A good mechanic is a good mechanic wherever it comes from, as is a bad one. Source isn't all that relevant. I really miss my D&D playing days. I haven't had a good group to play with in years. WoW is one of many games that I've used to fill that void, and I think that D&D could definitely make alot of improvements by emulating certain aspects of WoW. Playing a fighter or rogue in WoW is alot more fun than it is in D&D, for example. Rogues are something I'm fairly familiar with in both systems. In D&D, for the most part, a rogue tries to move into a flanking position and do a sneak attack. He does that every single round. If he has hide in plain sight(or some other sneak enabler), he does that every round. A WoW rogue has a wide assortment of abilities and attacks at his disposal, each with different benefits and drawbacks. Combat for a D&D rogue looks like this: Flank, sneak attack, flank, sneak attack, flank, sneak attack, flank, sneak attack, flank, sneak attack, flank, sneak attack, flank, sneak attack, flank, sneak attack, flank, sneak attack, flank, sneak attack, continuing like this for the entire lifetime of the character. Combat for a WoW rogue looks like this: Cheap shot, mutilate, kidney shot, cold blood, mutilate, eviscerate(if it will kill the opponent) otherwise gouge(or blind), stealth, cheap shot, mutilate, eviscerate. This is just my default combat routine. I still have many other attacks available that I could use if the above chain is suboptimal for some reason, not to mention a wide variety of defenses and other non attack abilities. To me, combat as a WoW rogue is infinitely more fun than combat as a D&D rogue, and I don't see how anybody could argue otherwise. Spellcasters have had the "different ability every round" playstyle since the beginning(via spellcasting), but for some reason non casters have basically been stuck with "I attack the monster with my sword". This needs to change, drastically. 3rd(and 3.5) took a step in the right direction with feats. However, you pretty much had to devote all your feats to a single style of fighting in order to be effective with it. So, instead of "I attack the monster with my sword" every round, you are instead stuck with "I trip the monster with my spiked chain" every round. Book of 9 Swords was pretty much exactly what melee characters needed, and I really hope that 4th ed follows that trend(though obviously they need to flavor it more appropriately). I'm also looking forward to officially supported online play. It'd be nice to have a group to play with again. Hopefully they come up with some good tools for finding a group, as I find that to be a weakness to the various current methods of playing D&D online. [/QUOTE]

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