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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7383244" data-attributes="member: 12731">The rogue is really shifty at its job, at least in games with options turned on.Why would you choose the rogue class if you want to create an Assassin, when a Shadow Monk is leagues better at that job. At least that class has a potent Alpha Strike - stun your target and game over.Why is the rogue described as someone who "would rather make one precise strike, placing it exactly where the attack will hurt the target most, than wear an opponent down with a barrage of attacks" when the barrage deals much more damage (at least after level 4)?Why play a rogue in a combat-heavy game, when you're very squishy against the most common danger - physical damage. Sure you can dance out of combat, but then you're risking a miss on your attack, and any round where you don't deliver Sneak damage is a wasted round, given that sneak attack isn't all that impressive.Why play a rogue in any game with only two or three non-trivial fights a day, when your Action Surges, Rages or Sorcery Points are enough to overshadow the Rogue every time?Sure you can play a game with no feats, no MC, no magic items and an interminable sequence of encounters of questionable challenge level, and yes, there the Rogue does much better. But I explicitly said this thread isn't about those games.I want the Rogue to deliver competitive DPR. That is why I didn't want to give the thread the name you suggest. Because I strongly believe the Rogue should be able to deliver competitive DPR as part of being.. a Rogue. To me, the Rogue class RAW is deficient. <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It is strangely designed to force players to master byzantine and metagamey rules.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It is subpar when played as part of a team.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It has weak class-specific "boost paths" - it gets much less out of feats, items and build choices than almost every other class</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It has no burst capability. In return, it seems to be balanced for an adventuring day much much longer than anyone actually experiences</li> </ul>Sure I could say "sorry, don't play a Rogue in my kind of game" but why would I want to settle for that, when we've made every other class work in our context?I don't accept that out of all the PHB classes, there is one that simply should not be able to compete on damage, especially given the way the class is described as a fearsome assassin.Nothing about the class says it must suck in combat. It's just miserly and begrudingly designed, that's all.But wait! This thread isn't just about complaining (although you lot make your best to make it be only about that) - it's also about constructively fixing these huge flaws in the class' design!So what do you think about my suggestions (back in my second post)? Too little, just perfect, or too much? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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