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<blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7384811" data-attributes="member: 6919838">I recall an internet discussion once where i think it was different weapon attack options were being discussed. One guy was on quite a tear and it was not quite possible to figure out how they got to their conclusions which were decidedly different than others.Then they got into the core math and showed and stated that they believed that for estimated oututs it was not the mean die roll or even the probable die rolls that should be used.... He saw the &quot;mode&quot; (number most frequently rolled) as the key and since on &quot;his&quot; d20 the most oft rolled number was a 17, that was the assumed die roll for all his math calculations.And yes, optimized fighters in optimized teamplay on low AC opponents with lucky rolls can get 5 hits in a turn even with GWM and -5 to hit. But using that as a significant part of the other side of the scales for balancing dpr with the assumption of a non-optimized rogue who eschews optimized play **while** at the same time dismissing claims that choose to not trest it as a general problem or see it as &quot;your table issue&quot; is very... trollish.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="5ekyu, post: 7384811, member: 6919838"] I recall an internet discussion once where i think it was different weapon attack options were being discussed. One guy was on quite a tear and it was not quite possible to figure out how they got to their conclusions which were decidedly different than others. Then they got into the core math and showed and stated that they believed that for estimated oututs it was not the mean die roll or even the probable die rolls that should be used.... He saw the "mode" (number most frequently rolled) as the key and since on "his" d20 the most oft rolled number was a 17, that was the assumed die roll for all his math calculations. And yes, optimized fighters in optimized teamplay on low AC opponents with lucky rolls can get 5 hits in a turn even with GWM and -5 to hit. But using that as a significant part of the other side of the scales for balancing dpr with the assumption of a non-optimized rogue who eschews optimized play **while** at the same time dismissing claims that choose to not trest it as a general problem or see it as "your table issue" is very... trollish. [/QUOTE]

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