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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 4351589" data-attributes="member: 5834">melee system?The biggest reason I don't want to upgrade to 4th edition is that the spell system lacks variation and the play/counterplay of previous editions. It is watered down and dumbed down to the point of requiring no knowledge or intuitive understanding of the dynamics of a how a certain spell is affecting an encounter and thus coming up with the best possible means to counter it. For a player like myself, this really ruins my enjoyment of the game.I love what 4th edition did for the melee classes. Creative, interesting, and made melee classes much more fun to play.I hate what 4th edition did to the caster classes and magic system. Watered down, lacking in creativity, and the entire play/counterplay of the spell system is gone.I'm reading these 4th edition books and just wondering how could Andy Collins and his creative team be so ignorant of how casters like myself played the game. Was I so far out there with my creative use of spells that I fall near the far outlier of normal spell use for the game? Were there so few high  casters that creatively used the 3.5 spell system that we were not enough of a market share to bother to please?Was I one of the only people readying counterspells? Was I one of the only people using Wall of Force to split the battlefield?Was I one of the only people designing adventures that required the use of hold spells for kidnappings or capturing beasts with force cages for transport back to a particular buyer? Did not many people use illusions for drawing out ambushes? Or Anticipate Teleport for giving your party time before that horde of demons appears?After reading the 4th edition magic system, I just get the feel that it was not designed with me in mind at all.I read the 4th edition system for melees and I feel like they did a great job of answering many of the complaints of the folks who liked to play melee characters.I'm left wondering why couldn't they have kept a varied, powerful, play/counterplay spell system while integrating new and interesting powers for the melee classes? Very confusing to me. I feel out of sorts with this new edition. On the one hand I want to try it because the melee classes look like such fun. On the other hand, I want to ignore it because my beloved wizards and priests have been changed into uninteresting and very limited shadows of their former selves.Anyone else feeling this same way?</blockquote>

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