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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Henry" data-source="post: 4352365" data-attributes="member: 158">Other than the "tricking my players" bit (I hope the fighter's player didn't sit around the whole game unable to play at all!) I'm seeing ways that 4e can spark adventure ideas all on their own. A couple for example:<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Someone noted that it is implied in the Cleric entry that the Cleric gets their power from their ordination, moreso than from their god. This opens a whole kettle of worms with rogue evil clerics besmirching the names of good gods, and the churches taking efforts to put down these rogue elements. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> It could also imply that when a god bestows power, they can't necessarily take it away, which has fascinating campaign effects. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">The very nature of rituals means that you can have customized rituals to put in-game effects into play that could not ordinarily be accomplished with 3e by-the-book spells. Undead Armies, Flying Castles, etc? All ritual, which may or may not be available to the PCs to find, AND even if they find them they may not be able to cast them (that flying castle? Requires the hearts of 10 lawful good virgins, whose sinlessness makes their spirits integral to the essence of a lighter-than-air castle. That Undead Army? Requires condemning the souls of every corpse you raise to the Hells.)</li> </ol>As for the play and counter-play, that seems to go on more on the battlefied than it ever did in 3e, whereas in 3e it was more about being prepared before you even get to the battlefield. Example: Your counterspelling. Unless you wanted to take a risk with dispel magic, counterspelling meant you had to know the exact spell being cast (or given certain feats in splatbooks, at the very least you had to know the school it was). If you didn't go into battle with it prepped, you were out of luck. With 4e, there was an excellent example in the video podcast recently where a mind flayer was digging into a PC's brain, and the other PCs had various ways to help:One conjured tentacles to beat up on the mind flayer before he could succeed.One tried to use an Otiluke's sphere to separate the two (but failed his roll);One was using her paladin powers to take damage from one of the minions attacking the poor victim.In many 4e scenarios, it's as much about teamwork as it is about the wizard being a one-man show, with his walls of force, his dominate spells, the vortexes of teeth, the evervations and avasculations, his SR-defeating orbs of energy, etc. It's more about getting the enemy into position by swapping places with him, or knocking him out with sleep long enough to take care of some of the forces without retaliation, or forming defensive lines so that the skirmishers can't get around the defenders to wail on the softer members, etc. Where 3e improved on making characters move on the battlefield, 4e improves on that even more. I will miss my Vancian magic, but I'll not miss triple the prep time for a 3e adveture as I am for a 4e one, nor will I miss trying to run a published monster with a whole-page stat block, or figuring out how to trim my homebrew monsters down to a managable stat block for one person to manage 5 separate ones of.</blockquote>

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