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<blockquote data-quote="Mallus" data-source="post: 4352853" data-attributes="member: 3887">In this context I'm not sure what you mean by 'middle-of-the-road' player type. I'm assuming that most players are of the type that want to make meaningful decisions/contributions during the course of an adventure. I suppose there are players who prefer to make/take 'all' and 'none' of the significant decisions/actions... the flat end of the bell curve, so to speak. 4e will leave them out in the cold, I'm afraid.They meant much less. Utility spells made most of the skill list irrelevant by mid-level.Craft is irrelevant when you're talking about common adventure-related tasks (barring odd corner cases). Skills like Thievery, Stealth, Athletics, Diplomancy and Bluff (ie, the ones you're likely to use while adventuring) are more important in 4e because it's harder to replace them with magic.A poster on another thread was lamenting that infiltration/espionage adventures weren't possible under 4e because of the changes to the magic system. The idea that characters could be sneaky through actual sneaking and guile didn't occur to him. Hopefully 4e will serve as a corrective to that mindset.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mallus, post: 4352853, member: 3887"] In this context I'm not sure what you mean by 'middle-of-the-road' player type. I'm assuming that most players are of the type that want to make meaningful decisions/contributions during the course of an adventure. I suppose there are players who prefer to make/take 'all' and 'none' of the significant decisions/actions... the flat end of the bell curve, so to speak. 4e will leave them out in the cold, I'm afraid. They meant [i]much[/i] less. Utility spells made most of the skill list irrelevant by mid-level. Craft is irrelevant when you're talking about common adventure-related tasks (barring odd corner cases). Skills like Thievery, Stealth, Athletics, Diplomancy and Bluff (ie, the ones you're likely to use while adventuring) are more important in 4e because it's harder to replace them with magic. A poster on another thread was lamenting that infiltration/espionage adventures weren't possible under 4e because of the changes to the magic system. The idea that characters could be sneaky through actual [i]sneaking[/i] and [i]guile[/i] didn't occur to him. Hopefully 4e will serve as a corrective to that mindset. [/QUOTE]

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