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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 4356084" data-attributes="member: 7635">In my experiences, the wizard didn't have to try. He had to actively avoid it. I always go back to the rogue and wizard example, but I always find it apt. No wizard, even the one with the biggest heart for his fellow thief, is going to pass up invisibility as a spell. It was too good a spell to pass up. For a single 2nd level spell slot:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">you could scout for hours (1 hr/lvl before 3.5) as long as you didn't attack</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">you were not forced to stick to shadows or cover & concealment</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">you had a 100% chance of not being seen (compared to a thief's % or rogues skill check)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You could move your full movement rate, even run, without penalty</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You gained bonuses to hit and AC vs foes (though it negated the spell)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Gave every benefit Hide/Hide in Shadows did (sneak attack, etc)</li> </ul>You can argue invisibility was overpowered for a 2nd level spell. You can make a point that rogues can Hide multiple times a day (whereas wizards were limited to spell slots, forgetting a sorcerer's 6/day for a moment) but you cannot argue a wizard, when he has invisibility prepped, has as good if not better a chance of successfully scouting as a rogue does. Invisibility is in the PHB. Its been there since 1e (and probably longer). Unless the DM specifically banned it, it was fair game to trample a rogue's scouting role. That was the problem with most spellcasters: they could do the non-casters job just as easily. A cleric with divine might (PHB) is a fighter for a major combat (and was no slouch unbuffed either). A druid wild-shaped into a bear is as good a warrior as a ranger (and probably a better scout and tracker, thanks to WS/spells). Polymorph opened all sorts of melee monsters up to the otherwise frail wizard (hence the several re-writes and final dissolving of it). These aren't estoric choices out of Complete Munchkin, these were common PHB tactics! I might have been the odd one out, but I cannot think of a game I played in for long where the spellcasters didn't eventually outstrip the noncasters in importance simply by doing their job.</blockquote>

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