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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Erekose" data-source="post: 2224296" data-attributes="member: 610">OK - so are you saying that in terms of balance your only problem is the poisoned touch ability at 1st level? Presumably the next step at 6th level isn't too much of a concern as a Cleric would have access to the spell poison at 7th level with the full d10 damage.So, at 1st level a Summoner compared to a 1st level Cleric has: HD: Worse d6 vs d8BAB/SAVES: SameSkill Points: SameSkill List: Better if as Wizard or same if as Cleric.Weapons & Armour: Worse than Cleric in both.Special abilities: Summoner has a restricted version of a 1st level spell usable once per day (Summoning - i.e. Summon Monster I) plus poisoned touch.Cleric has Turn Undead, 3 x 0 level spells + at least 2 x 1st level spells (probably more with Wisdom as a key attribute).So as a base case, is poisoned touch better than a combination of Turn Undead + 3 x 0 level spells + 1 x 1st level spell?May be, as it could cause up to 8 points of Constitution damage (or -4 hp/HD and the associated impact on skills and Fort saving throws) but it's probably less useful per se over the course of an adventuring day.So, what if the 1st level version only did 1d4 damage without the additional 1d4 damage 1 minute later? This would give a maximum reduction of -2 hp/HD. Compared to other 1st level spells, e.g. Doom, it doesn't feel massively overpowered - albeit still a little more powerful if used against an enemy with more than one HD. However, that enemy would still have to be attacked with a successful touch attack and would have to fail a Fortitude saving throw.Given that a Cleric is likely to have additional 1st level spells beyond the base case and that isn't an option for the Summoner, it doesn't seem particularly unbalanced. As for recovering from temporary ability score damage, all characters at early levels have to do is rest!What do you think?</blockquote>

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