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Message: <blockquote data-quote="yennico" data-source="post: 2226168" data-attributes="member: 11978">You are right.Your comparison is correct in almost all points except in weapons and armor.1. only a cleric with the domain war recieves the appropiate martial weapon proficiency feat as bonus feat. 2. the cleric has the heavy and medium armor proficiency but the maximum bonus from armor and dexterity to AC is +8 (except full plate). So a demonic summoner with a high dex can have an equal AC than a cleric.The summoner is a spellcaster but IMHO a divine spellcaster because a demon grants his spells. A divine spellcaster does not get an arcane failure chance. You can give your summoner the same armor proficiencies as an cleric.That is not the point. Poisonous touch at that level is too powerful and can be abused. The reason why:A demonic summoner level 1 has an archenemy: a good human cleric level 1.In the first fight day one the summoner uses his poisonous touch. The summoner make a successful touch attack and cleric fails his save. The cleric looses temporary 2 points con.Now the summoner flees.This cleric can either adventure the next two days (gaining one point con each day) or rest one day complete in bed.It is not important how the cleric wants to cure his temporary con damage, the next day the summoner fights the cleric again.... The summoner can use his poisonous touch again...If the cleric fails his save again... he needs to cure more temporary con damage.Each point of con damage means one day of adventuring to restore the damage. One day means the next day the summoner can use his poisonous touch again.The damage from poisonous touch does not heal before the enemy can use his ability again.Maximum -4 hps from 12+con (a barbarian) or 4+con (wizard) is something to think about. PCs or NPCs can abuse this ability. Think about hit and run tactics.Think about PCs who fight more than one evil demonic summoner.2 summoners means twice poisonous touch.... A demonic summoner level 1 is CR 1, so 4 PC level 4 can survive a fight against 4 demonic summoners level 1? Even one point of temporary con damage can be enough for a summoner to use his poisonous touch before this one point is cured. Poisonous touch is a spell-like ability. There exist feats that improves the saves of the spell-like ability or the number of uses per day. You can not compare poisonous touch to doom.   There are differences between doom an poisonous touch:1. The effect of the doom spell lasts only 1 min/level. The effect of poisonous touch lasts at least one day.2. Doom: A bard can reduce the penalty by singing an inspire courage song. A magic weapon reduces the attack penalty. A resistance reduces the penalty on saves.Poisonous touch: to boost your con you need to be at least level 3 (bear´s endurance).A touch attack is easier than a normal attack.To rest is to wait for the next poisonous touch attack of the summoner <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Poisonous touch is so powerful because of:- the duration of the damage- only one possibility to reduce the penalty (con damage): resting You can make a lesser poisonous touch: damage 1d4 temporary con damageduration of the damage 1min/level. After the duration the temporary con damage "heals" 1 point of con per min or hour At level 6 lesser poisonous touch improves to poisonous touch which acts like poison.</blockquote>

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