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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Alkiera" data-source="post: 2911625" data-attributes="member: 41353">You also have to account for the beast having a much higher fort save than reflex save.  The Colossus of Thard isn't quite as tough, (25HD), but has a +29 Fort, and +16 Ref.  That's a big difference.  A 20th level caster's spell will have DC of ~25... Meaning Slay is basically a guaranteed save, wheras the Create Energy is only a 45% chance.Nevermind that the odds of getting either spell off in combat are pretty small.  lvl 20 Spellcaster has 23 ranks in spellcraft, +32 (4th magnitude), +5(casting stat), +3 (skill focus) = +68 Spellcraft mod, compared to DC 154 = (86) casting time of 20 minutes.  You might be able to pump enough spell energy/mana into it to actually succeed at casting; 4th mage has 8+con mod energy points, call it 10...  Spend 8, it's almost a garaunteed cast.  However, that 15d6 Slay is gonna be doing 9d8+30 back at you, and you're down to 2 energy worth of DR.  Call the averages, it'll take ~53 damage, you'll take ~78 subdual(out of roughly 110 hp).Not a good tradeoff for makeing your friends run around in a circle with the thing for 20 minutes while you wave your arms.Instead, consider using Create Energy to toss two 8d6 fireballs every round, (DC ~60, so you can cast one as a swift action, and another as a standard action), Say this enemy has a 50/50 chance to save, so say it saves half the time, taking an average 12d6(42 dmg) per round.  You take 1d8+12(-10 for energy/mana DR, so 1d8+2) subdual for each casting.  Even if it has DR vs. your energy type, as long as it's not immune, it's likely to be taking damage faster than you, which is more than can be said for your example.Now which spell is better?--Alkiera</blockquote>

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