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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8173015" data-attributes="member: 82106">Not to get into any real disagreement on these points, but... Is it really a bad thing that players will be doing their own PCs with 'paper and pencil' (at least with a fillable character sheet of some sort). Sure, it makes it hard to have an exhaustive list of every single power and other option that was ever published right at your finger tips. OTOH there's nothing wrong with picking from what you can look up in a few sources, or just sticking to one or two sources. Unless your goal is to produce super optimized characters the results should be perfectly adequate. Although you may find it hard to apply all the most recent 'errata'. OTOH maybe that too is not such a bad thing in all cases...We didn't find 4e combats slow, particularly. What we found was that STATIC fights were simply dull and didn't deliver on the time spent on them. So, avoid at all costs &quot;4 orcs in a room&quot; type battles! If fights are interesting scenes with a plot and goals and interesting characters, then the time spent should be fun, and many fights really won't take that long, especially if they have endpoints (victory conditions) short of &quot;utterly annihilate the enemy to the last hit point.&quot; Still, using MM3 math and the most modern possible monster stat blocks will make things more fun. Finally it is still pretty easy to purchase 4e books. Prices on Amazon seem a bit high, but <a href="https://www.dmsguild.com/browse.php?keywords=4e&amp;x=0&amp;y=0&amp;author=&amp;artist=&amp;pfrom=&amp;pto=" target="_blank">Dungeon Masters Guild -</a> looks like it still sells PDFs of every single 4e SKU that WotC ever produced, or pretty darn close. Admittedly, maybe not a ton of people are wanting to pay $9.99 and up for each of these, but you don't necessarily need everyone to get every book, and between physical books many groups will already have, and PDFs of this or that one they may feel they need, its not really much harder to stock up on 4e stuff than it is on 5e stuff.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 8173015, member: 82106"] Not to get into any real disagreement on these points, but... Is it really a bad thing that players will be doing their own PCs with 'paper and pencil' (at least with a fillable character sheet of some sort). Sure, it makes it hard to have an exhaustive list of every single power and other option that was ever published right at your finger tips. OTOH there's nothing wrong with picking from what you can look up in a few sources, or just sticking to one or two sources. Unless your goal is to produce super optimized characters the results should be perfectly adequate. Although you may find it hard to apply all the most recent 'errata'. OTOH maybe that too is not such a bad thing in all cases... We didn't find 4e combats slow, particularly. What we found was that STATIC fights were simply dull and didn't deliver on the time spent on them. So, avoid at all costs "4 orcs in a room" type battles! If fights are interesting scenes with a plot and goals and interesting characters, then the time spent should be fun, and many fights really won't take that long, especially if they have endpoints (victory conditions) short of "utterly annihilate the enemy to the last hit point." Still, using MM3 math and the most modern possible monster stat blocks will make things more fun. Finally it is still pretty easy to purchase 4e books. Prices on Amazon seem a bit high, but [URL="https://www.dmsguild.com/browse.php?keywords=4e&x=0&y=0&author=&artist=&pfrom=&pto="]Dungeon Masters Guild -[/URL] looks like it still sells PDFs of every single 4e SKU that WotC ever produced, or pretty darn close. Admittedly, maybe not a ton of people are wanting to pay $9.99 and up for each of these, but you don't necessarily need everyone to get every book, and between physical books many groups will already have, and PDFs of this or that one they may feel they need, its not really much harder to stock up on 4e stuff than it is on 5e stuff. [/QUOTE]

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