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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Anyone playing 4e at the moment?
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<blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 8247231" data-attributes="member: 6779196"><p>We... <em>could</em>, but that isn’t the question the top-down vs. bottom-up model is asking...</p><p></p><p>I’m having a very difficult time parsing your sentences. Could you rephrase this?</p><p></p><p>I’m not putting forth the idea that anyone built a mechanic without consideration for what role it would play in the narrative. I’m saying that the impetus for some game elements is to build mechanics to express a particular narrative concept, while the impetus for other game elements is to build a narrative to suit a particular gameplay concept. I think this is pretty self-evident. I also think 4e made much heavier use of the latter than previous editions of D&D, and that’s a big part of the reason for the disconnect many felt and tried to express by calling it “videogamey.”</p><p></p><p>Yes.</p><p></p><p>You’re thinking too granularly. I seriously doubt the Avenger class was designed around the reroll mechanic. Rather, I think it was designed to be <em>a divine striker</em>. The reroll mechanic was probably designed to suit that gameplay role. This, as opposed to something like, say, the original ranger, which was designed to be Aragorn, and the mechanics were built to suit that narrative role. The former is bottom-up, the latter is top-down.</p><p></p><p>It can be either, as you just demonstrated. However, a system that is built from the top down is generally more difficult to reskin in, because the mechanics are generally more bespoke and purpose-built to suit a particular narrative, so changing the narrative often doesn’t result in as good a fit.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Charlaquin, post: 8247231, member: 6779196"] We... [I]could[/I], but that isn’t the question the top-down vs. bottom-up model is asking... I’m having a very difficult time parsing your sentences. Could you rephrase this? I’m not putting forth the idea that anyone built a mechanic without consideration for what role it would play in the narrative. I’m saying that the impetus for some game elements is to build mechanics to express a particular narrative concept, while the impetus for other game elements is to build a narrative to suit a particular gameplay concept. I think this is pretty self-evident. I also think 4e made much heavier use of the latter than previous editions of D&D, and that’s a big part of the reason for the disconnect many felt and tried to express by calling it “videogamey.” Yes. You’re thinking too granularly. I seriously doubt the Avenger class was designed around the reroll mechanic. Rather, I think it was designed to be [I]a divine striker[/I]. The reroll mechanic was probably designed to suit that gameplay role. This, as opposed to something like, say, the original ranger, which was designed to be Aragorn, and the mechanics were built to suit that narrative role. The former is bottom-up, the latter is top-down. It can be either, as you just demonstrated. However, a system that is built from the top down is generally more difficult to reskin in, because the mechanics are generally more bespoke and purpose-built to suit a particular narrative, so changing the narrative often doesn’t result in as good a fit. [/QUOTE]
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