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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lyxen" data-source="post: 8391769" data-attributes="member: 7032025">Honestly, just saying that something is supposed to be epic does not make it so. Even playing to lvl 30 in 4e, the characters still felt clumsy and earthbound to their little grids and small scale powers. Yes, these powers did more damage, but that was all, and what's more especially at high level, the descriptions of the effects felt totally artificial to me.Again, I'm not criticising the game in itself, the structure was great and it's the edition that did the most for balance at high level. But it did not feel epic, just exactly what I had at level 1 with higher numbers. So yes, writing "you are on the path to godhood" might feel nice, but in the end, it falls totally flat. I'll give you just one example, the ultimate capstone of the Archmage is... "You can now cast a daily spell as an encounter spell." And "Shape Magic" is "Effect: You regain one arcane power you have already used." So boring, flat and technical. And all the spells were damage spells, or vague utilities based on manipulating figures on a grid.And the ultimate trickster power is: "Regain all of your hit points and healing surges, automatically save against all effects on you, recover all expended encounter powers, or recover all expended daily powers except this one. Once you use this power, you cannot recover it except by taking an extended rest" Really sad, honestly.In terms of "feeling epic, my classification is, in order of rising epicness<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">4e, Lvl 30 is almost exactly like lvl 1 with bigger numbers.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">5e, lvl 20 really feels wishy-washy, I know that concentration, attunement and limited slots favour balance, but you will very limited all the time</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">3e, lvl 20 feels good, but sooooo complex that it dectracts from the feeling when you need 30 minutes to compute your modifier/</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">BECMI, a fighter really tears through armies, and casters have incredible power, and the road to immortality was actually fairly well done, and included dominions, integrated mass combat, etc.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">AD&D (1e, 2e should never have existed): really felt like demi-gods loaded with artefacts and incredible powers, and sneakiness really counted for something whatever the class. FIghting on the back of dragons, </li> </ul>I know, it's probably the way we played it in each edition, and from what you guys are telling you used 4e to get beyond the constraints of the system and play more free form, but again, what's the point of having a system if it's to ignore a lot of it to gain the freedom that you want. In our case, the clear view is that it's better to have the freedom to begin with.</blockquote>

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