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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8411806" data-attributes="member: 82106">Right, I don't think the EDs, and things like Thief of Legend are so much the issue as the transition within the combat mechanics. Those are kind of what hold 4e 'back' in a sense when it comes to playing an altered game at epic. They are very dependent on a specific formulation. OTOH the general rules, and the SC system, etc. are really rather scale-agnostic. 'Steal the color from the king's eyes' is not really a mechanic at all, so it safely exists outside of questions of swarms and whatnot. So the tricky part IS the combat part. I am not against the ideas of swarms, but that's just one bit. One of the factors IS scale, the scope of a battle is, given realistic battlemat sizes, in the 25-40 square range. 40 squares is 200 feet. My yard is 100x100 feet, or 20 squares on a side. I don't think a battle that spans my lot is exactly 'epic'. Now, admittedly there are going to be some techniques to alleviate that besides scale perhaps, but they all seem like half measures in some sense.</blockquote>