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Message: <blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7334563" data-attributes="member: 6919838">CharlaquinI believe the following is where we agree...1 - What a character does matters for determining between auto-success, auto-fail and chance/roll. (other constraints like risk associated with fail etc may also play a role.)1a - For jump an auto-success case exists for what basically is a DC defined by distance = DC running for long jump and ability = DC+ auto-success.2 - The character abilities (usually or always) matter when resolving the latter of those three - the chance roll.Within 1, we may disagree on the thresholds and such for what we choose to go into each of the three categories but we each use all three and likely with a lot of variants in and amongst the three.One place we clearly disagree is for me i dislike having one task within one skill "jumping within athletics" get some auto-mins and i like to have that "link Dc to abilities" apply to other skills which do not seem any more of an uncertainty than a long jump would be.  As for the concept that a reason for jump to have auto-success or results tied to abilities is that somehow it is not pass fail and the other are that is basically very limited or very selective perception.Just like "did not make it the full distance but got partly across" can matter, so can many if not most other tasks.just looking at strength listsforce open door - failure that got close could result in a slightly ajar door that you cannot move thru but which may allow spells or items passed thru, just like getting close to the egde of the chasm might get the gm to let you try to catch a branch lower down on that side - then climb up.break free of bonds - might not break free fully but get a hand loose enough to get to a pocket or pouch or slide pick to friend.Hang onto wagon while being pulled behind - is there ever a clearer case where "how long you hold on" pretty much matches up to "how far did you jump"? its literally "how far was i dragged before".keep a boulder from rolling - slow it long enough for others to get out of path or maybe at least get time for advantage on save to avoid.that is just a few - but the point is that many skills for i think many Gms have just as much "range for failure adjudication" as jump does and yet only jump gets the "look at ability for a minimum success" treatment. IMO, frankly, they could have taken the jump auto-distance thing, replaced that with a sentence relating DC to distance for an athletics check and used the space for a standard minimum-success statement for all skills (with Gm exception disclaimer if needed) and established a consistent character-to-success link for minimal cases and been just fine. Then the basic ability check system would apply for the cases in doubt of course.But to me, as a GM, i would feel myself being very much *inconsistent* if i told my players that for jump only the auto-success rules would include your ability and approach but that for other cases your ability would not factor in there but only once we reached the doubt stage. But thats me.i think lots of Gms would fall between you and i and others on outside of us as far as this is concerned.But i find it very consistent if more skills than jump have auto-success tied to ability mechanics that the players know ahead of time and can even build for.YMMV</blockquote>

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