Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
AoO and "circling"
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Balesir" data-source="post: 5950326" data-attributes="member: 27160"><p>I see the danger, for sure - but I find that much the same can apply to "Rulings", only worse! Assuming we want consistency (and I pretty much always do), then each "Ruling" is actually a rule by precedent. These build up in much the same way that continually appended systematic systems, but there is not the degree of thought given to future rules clashes and compatibility with earlier rulings that there (hopefully) is with a pre-codified system. I tend to find that "Rulings" is fine - liberating and invigorating, even - in the short term, but it tends to become more and more gnarly with time and thus lose out in the longer term. Since I like to run games that run for a long (game) time (my 4e games, for example, I aim to take from 1st to 30th level) I find pre-written, codified rules suit me far better.</p><p></p><p>I think maybe I am lucky, here. All of the players I run for take on a duty to understand the basics of the rules and to gain a knowledge of what their character can do. It helps, maybe, that we do run for extended campaigns; they have the same character for 20-30 levels, so they should get a pretty good grip on what their abilities are in that time, even though the details change level by level. For myself, I find that once I reach a certain point of "rules grokkage" I do think first about what I want to achieve and then I "translate" that into rules terms. To pick an example quoted in this thread:</p><p></p><p>I have a single fighter and I have a 25' wide gap to block - how do I approach it (in 4e)? Readied charge against the first enemy to cross a specified line (probably the line of entry to the gap). Looking at my decision, I think that models the situation pretty well; I will likely block one opponent trying to get past me, but a second will have a pretty easy time getting by.</p><p></p><p>Yes, the videos I chose were mostly "instructional" ones; there are some that are more like "free sparring" <a href="http://www.historicalfencing.co.uk/rev/" target="_blank">here</a>. The problem with the sparring ones is that you need to be careful which ones you pick; I have seen several where the combatants clearly had little or no training or even familiarity with the more "valid" medieval martial techniques that we are currently in the middle of (re-)learning from the old fechtbuchs and manuscripts. The link I gave has some pretty good ones - including, incidentally, a "longsword" (in D&D terms, a "bastard sword") versus rapier duel - try watching it and then tell me which has the higher "weapon speed factor"!</p><p></p><p>Yeah, the "sport" thing is actually both a good thing and a bad thing. It's good that both sides are seriously trying to hit, not just going through "katas", but the problem is that they are trying just to hit - not to hit in specific places or with sufficient force to seriously hurt or temporarily disable an opponent. As a result, they will sometimes open themselves up to what could be a devastating counter in order to "score" first - the action thus tends to be both faster and less forceful. Put simply, I'm going to attack you quite differently if I just want to tag you than if my aim is to run you through.</p><p></p><p>OK, but this gets to the nub of what I was trying to point up in those videos; watch how the fighters move, not just how far they move. They don't "walk" around in a normal sense - the movement is more like a shuffle, or a set of dance moves (which, incidentally, is why warriors' training has often included dancing lessons!). In this sense, I think the inclusion of a separate "movement mode" is actually very evocative of the fiction; "movement" is walking or trotting around normally, "shifting" (maybe a naff word, but that happens a lot in 4e) is the sort of choreographed shuffles and dance steps that you see in the videos when moving around an armed and dangerous opponent.</p><p></p><p>So, if you want a skill check for passing through a melee, try "dancing"!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Balesir, post: 5950326, member: 27160"] I see the danger, for sure - but I find that much the same can apply to "Rulings", only worse! Assuming we want consistency (and I pretty much always do), then each "Ruling" is actually a rule by precedent. These build up in much the same way that continually appended systematic systems, but there is not the degree of thought given to future rules clashes and compatibility with earlier rulings that there (hopefully) is with a pre-codified system. I tend to find that "Rulings" is fine - liberating and invigorating, even - in the short term, but it tends to become more and more gnarly with time and thus lose out in the longer term. Since I like to run games that run for a long (game) time (my 4e games, for example, I aim to take from 1st to 30th level) I find pre-written, codified rules suit me far better. I think maybe I am lucky, here. All of the players I run for take on a duty to understand the basics of the rules and to gain a knowledge of what their character can do. It helps, maybe, that we do run for extended campaigns; they have the same character for 20-30 levels, so they should get a pretty good grip on what their abilities are in that time, even though the details change level by level. For myself, I find that once I reach a certain point of "rules grokkage" I do think first about what I want to achieve and then I "translate" that into rules terms. To pick an example quoted in this thread: I have a single fighter and I have a 25' wide gap to block - how do I approach it (in 4e)? Readied charge against the first enemy to cross a specified line (probably the line of entry to the gap). Looking at my decision, I think that models the situation pretty well; I will likely block one opponent trying to get past me, but a second will have a pretty easy time getting by. Yes, the videos I chose were mostly "instructional" ones; there are some that are more like "free sparring" [URL="http://www.historicalfencing.co.uk/rev/"]here[/URL]. The problem with the sparring ones is that you need to be careful which ones you pick; I have seen several where the combatants clearly had little or no training or even familiarity with the more "valid" medieval martial techniques that we are currently in the middle of (re-)learning from the old fechtbuchs and manuscripts. The link I gave has some pretty good ones - including, incidentally, a "longsword" (in D&D terms, a "bastard sword") versus rapier duel - try watching it and then tell me which has the higher "weapon speed factor"! Yeah, the "sport" thing is actually both a good thing and a bad thing. It's good that both sides are seriously trying to hit, not just going through "katas", but the problem is that they are trying just to hit - not to hit in specific places or with sufficient force to seriously hurt or temporarily disable an opponent. As a result, they will sometimes open themselves up to what could be a devastating counter in order to "score" first - the action thus tends to be both faster and less forceful. Put simply, I'm going to attack you quite differently if I just want to tag you than if my aim is to run you through. OK, but this gets to the nub of what I was trying to point up in those videos; watch how the fighters move, not just how far they move. They don't "walk" around in a normal sense - the movement is more like a shuffle, or a set of dance moves (which, incidentally, is why warriors' training has often included dancing lessons!). In this sense, I think the inclusion of a separate "movement mode" is actually very evocative of the fiction; "movement" is walking or trotting around normally, "shifting" (maybe a naff word, but that happens a lot in 4e) is the sort of choreographed shuffles and dance steps that you see in the videos when moving around an armed and dangerous opponent. So, if you want a skill check for passing through a melee, try "dancing"! [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
AoO and "circling"
Top