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AoO and Cleave
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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 2747755" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>Reach weapons are a pain in real combat. Sure, when opponents first meet, they are good. But in real combat, they were quickly dropped (unless used on horseback) and replaced with more traditional weapons.</p><p></p><p>I hate to break it to you, but wuxia films are more fake than professional wrestling.</p><p></p><p>Sure, a Spanish Staff Fighter could keep a lot of opponents from reaching him as long as he has no nearby allies to accidentally hit. But in DND, you tend to have groups of PCs in close proximity. It would be impossible to attack someone 10 feet in front of you and then 10 feet behind you within a half second while you have allies on either side in a 8 foot tall room. But, it can easily happen in DND.</p><p></p><p>Allowing this in a game is called Suspension of Disbelief.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Have you ever been in real melee combat like a gang fight? It sounds like you haven't. Yes, you can easily be snuck up on. Ask anyone who has been in it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's precisely it. Attacks of opportunity are a game mechanic. They handle balance issues of the game. But, they do not reflect reality in any way, shape, or form.</p><p></p><p>Very few DND game mechanics come close to reflecting reality. If you want reality in combat for a roleplaying game, consider playing Riddle of Steel.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If you are fighting eight guys, you won't have time to take advantage of one of them lowering their guard. Nor will you probably see it happening. You'll be too busy.</p><p></p><p>But in DND, everyone is aware of most everything around them all of the time.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If you think that this is what they do, fine. Just because you kill someone does not mean that you necessarily did a powerful blow (e.g. you could have done 1 hit point of damage, but that is irrelevant to Cleave). That's called flavor text. It allows people to wrap what happens into some framework of imagination. But, the flavor text typically did not come first. The game mechanic came first. If the flavor text came first on Cleave, it would have been something like: If you do 15 or more points of damage against one opponent, you cleave through him and get a free attack against another opponent.</p><p></p><p>Neither of these is even close to a real reflection of reality, but if it works for you, that's cool. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool :cool:" data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 2747755, member: 2011"] Reach weapons are a pain in real combat. Sure, when opponents first meet, they are good. But in real combat, they were quickly dropped (unless used on horseback) and replaced with more traditional weapons. I hate to break it to you, but wuxia films are more fake than professional wrestling. Sure, a Spanish Staff Fighter could keep a lot of opponents from reaching him as long as he has no nearby allies to accidentally hit. But in DND, you tend to have groups of PCs in close proximity. It would be impossible to attack someone 10 feet in front of you and then 10 feet behind you within a half second while you have allies on either side in a 8 foot tall room. But, it can easily happen in DND. Allowing this in a game is called Suspension of Disbelief. Have you ever been in real melee combat like a gang fight? It sounds like you haven't. Yes, you can easily be snuck up on. Ask anyone who has been in it. That's precisely it. Attacks of opportunity are a game mechanic. They handle balance issues of the game. But, they do not reflect reality in any way, shape, or form. Very few DND game mechanics come close to reflecting reality. If you want reality in combat for a roleplaying game, consider playing Riddle of Steel. If you are fighting eight guys, you won't have time to take advantage of one of them lowering their guard. Nor will you probably see it happening. You'll be too busy. But in DND, everyone is aware of most everything around them all of the time. If you think that this is what they do, fine. Just because you kill someone does not mean that you necessarily did a powerful blow (e.g. you could have done 1 hit point of damage, but that is irrelevant to Cleave). That's called flavor text. It allows people to wrap what happens into some framework of imagination. But, the flavor text typically did not come first. The game mechanic came first. If the flavor text came first on Cleave, it would have been something like: If you do 15 or more points of damage against one opponent, you cleave through him and get a free attack against another opponent. Neither of these is even close to a real reflection of reality, but if it works for you, that's cool. :cool: [/QUOTE]
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