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<blockquote data-quote="irdeggman" data-source="post: 2752572" data-attributes="member: 16285">I think the name &quot;Cleave&quot; causes a lot of the problems. It conjures up images of cutting someone in two when the mechanic doesn't really depend on that.I think of it more as a continuation of the attack. When there is no more resistance (i.e., the oppenent has fallen) then the attacker is &quot;conditioned&quot; (again through training and the acquistion of the feat in the first place) to &quot;respond&quot; and continue his attack to the next foe.&nbsp; Again it can be anyone he can reach which is part of the continous motion and why it doesn't work with Whirwind Attack.I really don't like to equate this with having an opening since that puts it into the same realm as AoO which is what is causing most people to have problems in the first place.IMO it is not &quot;caused&quot; by the foe but by the attacker - he is generating the action by his attack (and its results).A separate set of questions to ask that might be related are:Can you apply your Dodge bonus against someone making an AoO against you?Can you use Power Attack as part of an AoO?Weapon Finesse?How about other feats?IMO the same logic for &quot;disallowing&quot; cleave should also apply to every one of these.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="irdeggman, post: 2752572, member: 16285"] I think the name "Cleave" causes a lot of the problems. It conjures up images of cutting someone in two when the mechanic doesn't really depend on that. I think of it more as a continuation of the attack. When there is no more resistance (i.e., the oppenent has fallen) then the attacker is "conditioned" (again through training and the acquistion of the feat in the first place) to "respond" and continue his attack to the next foe. Again it can be anyone he can reach which is part of the continous motion and why it doesn't work with Whirwind Attack. I really don't like to equate this with having an opening since that puts it into the same realm as AoO which is what is causing most people to have problems in the first place. IMO it is not "caused" by the foe but by the attacker - he is generating the action by his attack (and its results). A separate set of questions to ask that might be related are: Can you apply your Dodge bonus against someone making an AoO against you? Can you use Power Attack as part of an AoO? Weapon Finesse? How about other feats? IMO the same logic for "disallowing" cleave should also apply to every one of these. [/QUOTE]

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