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<blockquote data-quote="Lamoni" data-source="post: 2755629" data-attributes="member: 12680">I don't see how it is fatally flawed.&nbsp; It is true that turns are merely a game mechanic, but aren't we discussing game mechanics?&nbsp; The game mechanics affect combat.&nbsp; We aren't just watching a combat and then applying whatever mechanics best represent it.&nbsp; We use the mechanics to tell the combat story.&nbsp; So... if you are able to get extra attacks on your 'turn' then when you convert that to the combat story you are telling (where turns don't really exist), you still attack twice as much as your opponent.You are welcome to disagree that it is a problem.&nbsp; Maybe you don't care if C gets to attack A twice in a round when he should only be able to hit him once... however that doesn't negate the fact that it can happen.&nbsp; And the fact that it can happen is why people dislike allowing cleaves with AoO's.Of course, this can only happen if the person took Cleave as a feat.&nbsp; Some may see that as an intended added bonus of the feat and that is just fine too.&nbsp; I can see both sides, prefer one, and dislike house rules enough that I'll still play the way it is written.If anyone is still confused, you can read any one of Firelance's last 5 posts (I didn't really count) that repeat the same argument quite clearly.&nbsp; His first post should have been sufficient, but people seemed to still be confused.Some people imagine combat like what you would see at a jousting and swordplay tournament.&nbsp; Others imagine it like you see in movies like Hero or Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.&nbsp; Maybe you imagine King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table.&nbsp; All this and much more can be represented with the story and you can still use D20's combat rules.&nbsp; So if someone doesn't see combat the same as you, they aren't really seeing it wrong.&nbsp; Anything can happen in a Fantasy setting because it is just that, FANTASY.&nbsp; But that means you could even imagine a fantastical world where people had even MORE restrictions and were LESS able than they are in real life.&nbsp; I doubt anyone does that, but you can't really point to your idea of fantasy and define all fantasy by that description. (this paragraph isn't directed to anyone in particular and isn't meant to accuse anyone of doing so... it just seemed to be at the heart of a lot of arguments)Just my 9 cents...</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lamoni, post: 2755629, member: 12680"] I don't see how it is fatally flawed. It is true that turns are merely a game mechanic, but aren't we discussing game mechanics? The game mechanics affect combat. We aren't just watching a combat and then applying whatever mechanics best represent it. We use the mechanics to tell the combat story. So... if you are able to get extra attacks on your 'turn' then when you convert that to the combat story you are telling (where turns don't really exist), you still attack twice as much as your opponent. You are welcome to disagree that it is a problem. Maybe you don't care if C gets to attack A twice in a round when he should only be able to hit him once... however that doesn't negate the fact that it can happen. And the fact that it can happen is why people dislike allowing cleaves with AoO's. Of course, this can only happen if the person took Cleave as a feat. Some may see that as an intended added bonus of the feat and that is just fine too. I can see both sides, prefer one, and dislike house rules enough that I'll still play the way it is written. If anyone is still confused, you can read any one of Firelance's last 5 posts (I didn't really count) that repeat the same argument quite clearly. His first post should have been sufficient, but people seemed to still be confused. Some people imagine combat like what you would see at a jousting and swordplay tournament. Others imagine it like you see in movies like Hero or Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Maybe you imagine King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table. All this and much more can be represented with the story and you can still use D20's combat rules. So if someone doesn't see combat the same as you, they aren't really seeing it wrong. Anything can happen in a Fantasy setting because it is just that, FANTASY. But that means you could even imagine a fantastical world where people had even MORE restrictions and were LESS able than they are in real life. I doubt anyone does that, but you can't really point to your idea of fantasy and define all fantasy by that description. (this paragraph isn't directed to anyone in particular and isn't meant to accuse anyone of doing so... it just seemed to be at the heart of a lot of arguments) Just my 9 cents... [/QUOTE]

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