AoO on invisible people?

[zyzzyr]

Hi all,

I recently had a session where the duergar enemies, who were invisible, tried to walk past the players. If they moved within 5 feet, I did a move silently vs. listen check. If the player heard the invisible person, then they got an AoO, but I would only tell them that it's "somewhere to their right|left|behind|front". They had to guess then, out of 3 squares, where they were, and then 50% miss chance applied.

How do you handle invisible characters walking around among players, and how do you handle AoO's? Another example would be an invisible character sprinting right by the player.

Thoughts?

 

[Thanee]

I'd also just use the listen/spot rules from the DMG, to determine, whether they would notive them.

With Blind Fighting and Combat Reflexes there could be a bad surprise for the invisible ones!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Henrix]

yes, it sounds as if you've got it right.
If they had beaten their Listen DC by 20, they would have pinpointed the square the duergar was in.

 

[dcollins]

This question has gotten conflicting answers from the D&D design team... as shown on this page here: http://66.34.111.89/Eric/3ecombat.htm

You'll notice in one place it says:

AoOs in Darkness or When Blind (Ryan Dancey): Here is the consensus of the design team: (1) Yes, blinded creatures (or those in darkness) get AOOs on creatures that pass through them, (2) They must make Listen checks (and beat the DC by 20)...

Note that blindness is supposed to be equivalent to confronting an invisible opponent. However, a few lines further down we see documented:

Combat Sage Advice: Michael J. Eshleman recently wrote to Skip "The Sage" Williams and received answers on a few questions: Does a character who is not flatfooted, but is still denied their Dexterity bonus to AC due to a successful feint or other circumstance threaten the squares around him? No. Can he take AOO's if they are provoked? No.

This latter case is (Dex denied to AC) is also the situation that occurs when confronting an invisible opponent.

 

[Thanee]

Another example, where the Sage is obviously wrong!

Threatening an area is not conditional to specific opponents. Losing one's Dex bonus to AC is conditional to specific opponents.

If you are fighting a visible and an invisible opponent, you lose Dex to AC against the invisible opponent, but you do not lose your threatened area.

Bye
Thanee

 

[dcollins]

Threatening an area is not conditional to specific opponents...

That might be true. However, it's still an arguably defensible ruling to not allow AOO's against specific opponents against whom you lose your Dex bonus to AC. Admittedly that would have to be a separate issue from not threatening the area that they're in.

 

[zyzzyr]

Thanks!

Hi all,

Thanks for the info.

From now on, I will do the Listen check, and they must beat a DC of 20 to get an AoO.

Re: Losing a dex bonus - this is not always conditional per opponent. Being flat-footed, for example, loses your dex bonus until your round comes up, and thus to all you have no dex bonus. Unless flat-footed is considered different from just losing your dex bonus.

 

[Thanee]

Well, it can be conditional to specific opponents, unlike the threatened area.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

That might be true. However, it's still an arguably defensible ruling to not allow AOO's against specific opponents against whom you lose your Dex bonus to AC.

I agree! It's just not an official rule.

Bye
Thanee