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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 3512020" data-attributes="member: 2011">Hence the reason I said "typically".Take 10th level: +5 Str to hit, +2 Str boost item (i.e. +1 to hit), +2 magic weapon, +1 weapon focus, +10 BAB = +19. The max AC of the Trip Monkey at that level might be: +8 plate armor, +2 magic armor, +2 large shield, +2 magic shield, +1 Dex = AC 25. The Fighter hits 75% of the time. Prone, he hits 55% of the time. On a single attack, he averages 27% less damage. On a full round attack, he has 55% on the first and 30% on the second as opposed to 75% and 55% or 35% less damage.At lower levels, the decrease in average damage will go up. At higher levels, the single attack decrease in average damage will go down, but the full round attack decrease in average damage will typically go up (e.g. 11th level might be 60/35/10 instead of 85/60/35 or a 42% decrease in overall damage) compared to a full round attack standing.So generally, the damage decrease will generally be about 25% to 50%, rarely more, but sometimes less, depending. And your concept of full round attacks from the ground actually lower the damage more the higher the PCs get.So in answer to your question "Why would a decent fighter even bother standing up at all?", it's because he is usually worse off than a non-mobile cohort by staying on the ground.He's not doing his job if he is on the ground.Personally, I have never seen any PC combatant type use a Tower Shield in the game. But, if one did, he could use it to stand up (attack action to use it for full cover and move action to stand). That uses up a full round of actions and allows his opponents to move away and attack other PCs. And moving away will not provoke Attacks of Opportunity since the PC Fighter is behind the full cover of a tower shield.All in all, it is often a terrible tactic to stay on the ground. Generally the only time a PC Fighter should do that is if a Trip Monkey keeps knocking him down (and damaging him with Improved Trip) every time he gets back up and he is unable to really get in many attacks at all. In that case, he is not doing much of anything by trying to stand back up and should probably attack from the ground. But most of the time, he should try to get back up (even taking the AoO for standing) in order to improve his to hit, his AC, and his mobility.There are some cases at higher levels where a boatload of attacks from the ground is good regardless, but at those levels, opponents should sometimes attack other PCs as opposed to standing next to a full round attacking Fighter, even if he is prone (and by moving away, they force him to waste time getting up).</blockquote>

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