AoO whie Concentratiing?

[Kaledor]

This question has come up in our group and I saw it mentioned (but not answered in another thread)...

If you have a character that is currently concentrating on a spell AND is equiped with a melee weapon, can they take an AoO if one is provoked WITHOUT losing their spell?

First, I think you have to establish whether they can take the AoO. I think yes. They're armed, and if it were their turn they COULD take an attack action, thus they can take the AoO.

Second, you have to rule whether they lose the spell they are concentrating on.
The two schools of thought that have come up are:

1) YES, YOU LOSE THE SPELL. You're making an attack and that cancels your concentration.

2) NO, AS LONG AS ON YOUR TURN YOU SPEND AN ACTION CONCENTRATING. Generally, the reason you lose your spell when you attack is that you have spent your standard action on the attack rather than the concen...



Are there other rules out there that people have found and others have missed?
Which way do you rule it?

Personally, from what I've seen I think the 2nd ruling is the most RAWy (can I make that an adjective?). This ruling would also allow a caster (if they were able to perform two standard actions in a turn) to concentrate AND attack in a round - whereas, the first ruling would nuke that idea. BUT I certainly see the first ruling's appeal (it seems to conform closer to the intent of the rules).



PS. One of the players in my group suggested house ruling the feat Combat Casting to allow a caster to make AoO while concentrating, but that other casters couldn't do so without losing their spell. It was an interesting idea.

 

[Vegepygmy]

"In general, if an action wouldn't normally provoke an attack of opportunity, you need not make a Concentration check to avoid being distracted." PHB, page 69.

 

[javcs]

"In general, if an action wouldn't normally provoke an attack of opportunity, you need not make a Concentration check to avoid being distracted." PHB, page 69.

To further clarify, as long as your AoO does not provoke an AoO itself (which, as long as you are simply smacking the guy with a weapon, it won't), you can take the AoO and probably not need a Concentration check to retain the spell.
So, RAW, you can take an AoO, the DM may or may not choose to call for a Concentration check (DC would probably follow the established pattern of spell level + base value of 15, or otherwise incredibly easy at mid or higher levels) in order to retain the spell, if no check is called for, you automatically retain concentration on the spell, if a check is called for and you make it, you keep the spell, if a check is called for and you fail, only then do you loose the spell.

 

[Merkuri]

"In general, if an action wouldn't normally provoke an attack of opportunity, you need not make a Concentration check to avoid being distracted." PHB, page 69.

I believe that applies to making concentration checks in order to cast spells. I believe the OP was talking about concentration checks to maintain spells already cast. For example, Detect Magic continues to work as long as the character concentrates on it. The question is, will you lose the Detect Magic spell if you take an AOO, or does it keep going as long as you spend your next turn concentrating on it?

 

[javcs]

I believe that applies to making concentration checks in order to cast spells. I believe the OP was talking about concentration checks to maintain spells already cast. For example, Detect Magic continues to work as long as the character concentrates on it. The question is, will you lose the Detect Magic spell if you take an AOO, or does it keep going as long as you spend your next turn concentrating on it?

Casting a spell provokes an AoO normally (without using Concentration to avoid the AoO).
What else could it be talking about but maintaining concentration on a spell already cast?

 

[TYPO5478]

Casting a spell provokes an AoO normally (without using Concentration to avoid the AoO).
What else could it be talking about but maintaining concentration on a spell already cast?

Um...

It could be talking about casting a spell.

For what it's worth, I say yes, you could make an AoO while concentrating on a spell as long as (a) you threaten the square where the AoO was provoked and (b) you spend your standard action maintaining the spell.

 

[Kaledor]

I believe that applies to making concentration checks in order to cast spells. I believe the OP was talking about concentration checks to maintain spells already cast. For example, Detect Magic continues to work as long as the character concentrates on it. The question is, will you lose the Detect Magic spell if you take an AOO, or does it keep going as long as you spend your next turn concentrating on it?

Yes. That's the question. (I added the bold font)

EXAMPLE:
You're a mage.
You've got a dagger in hand.
You cast a spell with duration concentration.
During subsequent turns in which you are continuing to maintain concentration, an opponent triggers an AoO from you (say he moves through several of your threatened squares).
You (the mage concentrating on a spell) are eligible to make the AoO.

However,
1) If you do make the AoO do you lose the spell? (b/c you made an attack)
Or
2) If you take the AoO can you keep the spell going as long as you spend your next round concentrating on the spell (as per normal rules -- "concentration" == standard action that generally does not require a Concen Check).



I hadn't yet asked about the Concentration Check roll which might be required since an AoO would certainly qualify as Vigorous or Violent Motion (with a DC 10 -15 or perhaps a spell level dependent DC)...

 

[Merkuri]

I don't think there's any clear-cut answer in the books. The quote above may apply, but note that it starts with "in general." AoOs aren't normal actions. AoOs essentially allow you to do what normally would be a standard action (attacking), and taking such an action on your turn would stop the spell because you do not have a standard action left to use for concentration.

I would rule that attacking takes the same amount of concentration, regardless if you spend your standard action on it or get a "free action" with an AoO (enough for a standard action) and thus ends the spell you're concentrating on. But that would be a house rule based on how I logically think things should work, not on any quote in a book.

 

[irdeggman]

Remember that an AoO is a "non action" action. It is something that does not use one of your own actions but is a "bonus". If a character maintaining concentration can't take an AoO then he can't "defend himself" either - so his AC should drop accordingly.

I don't think it was meant to work like you lose the opportunity to perform bonus actions like making an AoO when concentrating, unless specifically spelled out.

 

[Kaledor]

For what it's worth, I say yes, you could make an AoO while concentrating on a spell as long as (a) you threaten the square where the AoO was provoked and (b) you spend your standard action maintaining the spell.

My vote too.
But I figured I'd post the question to see if anybody disagreed and could tell me why -- there are a few players in my group that disagree but all they can come up with is that it doesn't feel right to be able to make an attack while concentrating on a spell.