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<blockquote data-quote="Kaius" data-source="post: 5281987" data-attributes="member: 93848">Hi,&nbsp;How do people feel about making particular abilities within a base class archetype optional. As an example one character in my game is playing a 2nd level fighter. I just picked up the APG and told everyone they can have a look at it and retroactively change their characters using the new options if they wish. The player with the fighter wants to change to a polearm fighter but wants to take one polearm fighter ability and switch it back to the armor training ability that it would normally replace (going by memory here I don't have the book with me at the moment). I think he wants to get the armor penalty reductions from armor training so he can tumble around the battlefield or something.&nbsp;At first I said no, he has to take the entire archetype as is, as some ability replacements may not be balanced on their own, but the archetype is balanced as a whole. This seems to be the case because some of the archetype abilities are simply restrictions on normal fighter abilities, like making a polearm fighter take weapon training in polearms only.&nbsp;Now I am second guessing that decision. I am thinking of allowing a player to switch a certain number of abilities as long as they don't switch the base class ability restrictions placed on an archetype.&nbsp;Another example I found for a character I want to play in another DM's game is the shielded fighter. The first ability is something like get a +1 (which increases with level) dodge bonus when using a shield while fighting defensively, on full defense, or with combat expertise. You give up armor training 1-4 with this ability. The character I have in mind would be fighting with two shields (shield bash) and so would have a high dex for two weapon fighting, and was not planning on taking combat expertise. I feel the character would benefit more from increased max dex than a bonus when he fights with combat expertise.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kaius, post: 5281987, member: 93848"] Hi, How do people feel about making particular abilities within a base class archetype optional. As an example one character in my game is playing a 2nd level fighter. I just picked up the APG and told everyone they can have a look at it and retroactively change their characters using the new options if they wish. The player with the fighter wants to change to a polearm fighter but wants to take one polearm fighter ability and switch it back to the armor training ability that it would normally replace (going by memory here I don't have the book with me at the moment). I think he wants to get the armor penalty reductions from armor training so he can tumble around the battlefield or something. At first I said no, he has to take the entire archetype as is, as some ability replacements may not be balanced on their own, but the archetype is balanced as a whole. This seems to be the case because some of the archetype abilities are simply restrictions on normal fighter abilities, like making a polearm fighter take weapon training in polearms only. Now I am second guessing that decision. I am thinking of allowing a player to switch a certain number of abilities as long as they don't switch the base class ability restrictions placed on an archetype. Another example I found for a character I want to play in another DM's game is the shielded fighter. The first ability is something like get a +1 (which increases with level) dodge bonus when using a shield while fighting defensively, on full defense, or with combat expertise. You give up armor training 1-4 with this ability. The character I have in mind would be fighting with two shields (shield bash) and so would have a high dex for two weapon fighting, and was not planning on taking combat expertise. I feel the character would benefit more from increased max dex than a bonus when he fights with combat expertise. [/QUOTE]

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