Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
[APG] Summoner Still Worth Taking?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Kaisoku" data-source="post: 5272582" data-attributes="member: 58447"><p>I'd much rather see Paizo release something that was a little on the weak side, than release a set of overpowered options.</p><p></p><p>Sure, you can always fix things and houserule them, but for Pathfinder Society play or just dealing with players demands, it's tough when a class starts wrecking your campaign, or telling a player "No" once you've learned your lesson.</p><p>If it's weak, then if it's noticeable in game, the DM can make adjustments upward.</p><p>Quite simply, players like being given boosts, and hate having things taken away. Since the DM sees the player face to face, it's better to have the "taken away" happen on the designer side.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It was said by a developer (can't remember which) that the APG base classes were supposed to be delving into new mechanics that may or may not be well received. Not being in core makes it easier to disallow if it's not to taste.</p><p>Hence the Inquisitor's half-divine caster and round-by-round scaling (which ended up being cut), the mount-specific cavalier with his challenges, the alchemists new casting method, the witch's spell list/familiar dependancy and hexes, and the oracle's divine sorcerer + curses.</p><p></p><p>In my own personal experience during Beta testing, I had a character playing a heavily modified version of the Summoner.</p><p>He was using an Undead version, that was around 100% of the time. I also didn't run it with the magic item sharing thing.</p><p></p><p>Those two aspects (which have been heavily restricted in the Beta and now final version) never really was an issue. It was the "full healing once per day, but otherwise no healing" that kinda made for an awkward awesome-but-not. And the permanent Large/Huge thing. That made for some pretty easily gained terrifying bonuses that bordered on absurd.</p><p></p><p>Also, this was a good opportunity to really define a modular creature creation system with evolutions, allowing for more than just the "big brute" idea.</p><p>As it was, player's demands meant I had to make some of my own modifications so body type and mode of travel was a little more universally applicable, and rules for Tiny-sized creatures.</p><p></p><p>In the end, the mechanic is actually quite neat, and I'd love to see a class built around Shapeshifting that used evolutions as it's mechanic.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kaisoku, post: 5272582, member: 58447"] I'd much rather see Paizo release something that was a little on the weak side, than release a set of overpowered options. Sure, you can always fix things and houserule them, but for Pathfinder Society play or just dealing with players demands, it's tough when a class starts wrecking your campaign, or telling a player "No" once you've learned your lesson. If it's weak, then if it's noticeable in game, the DM can make adjustments upward. Quite simply, players like being given boosts, and hate having things taken away. Since the DM sees the player face to face, it's better to have the "taken away" happen on the designer side. It was said by a developer (can't remember which) that the APG base classes were supposed to be delving into new mechanics that may or may not be well received. Not being in core makes it easier to disallow if it's not to taste. Hence the Inquisitor's half-divine caster and round-by-round scaling (which ended up being cut), the mount-specific cavalier with his challenges, the alchemists new casting method, the witch's spell list/familiar dependancy and hexes, and the oracle's divine sorcerer + curses. In my own personal experience during Beta testing, I had a character playing a heavily modified version of the Summoner. He was using an Undead version, that was around 100% of the time. I also didn't run it with the magic item sharing thing. Those two aspects (which have been heavily restricted in the Beta and now final version) never really was an issue. It was the "full healing once per day, but otherwise no healing" that kinda made for an awkward awesome-but-not. And the permanent Large/Huge thing. That made for some pretty easily gained terrifying bonuses that bordered on absurd. Also, this was a good opportunity to really define a modular creature creation system with evolutions, allowing for more than just the "big brute" idea. As it was, player's demands meant I had to make some of my own modifications so body type and mode of travel was a little more universally applicable, and rules for Tiny-sized creatures. In the end, the mechanic is actually quite neat, and I'd love to see a class built around Shapeshifting that used evolutions as it's mechanic. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
[APG] Summoner Still Worth Taking?
Top