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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 4405673" data-attributes="member: 2011">Actually, it doesn't matter that much at low levels.The average first level creature AC is 1.5 higher than the average first level creature Reflex defense.The average first level creature AC is 3.8 higher than the average first level creature Will defense (so, if the DM allows Illusory Ambush, the Wizard has a better advantage than the Rogue's +3 for weapon proficiency on average, at least against first level creatures).But, let's compare damage for an apples to apples comparison of Reflex and Reflex at first level (instead of an AC vs. Reflex comparison):Dex 18 Rogue vs. Reflex At Will Piercing Strike Short Sword (Dagger is +1 more to hit, but does 1 less damage) compared to Int 18 Wizard vs. Reflex At Will Cloud of Daggers. Rogue is +3 to hit. Wizard does 100% Wis damage.If Wizard has 50% chance to hit, he does .45 * 7.5 + .05 * 10 + Wis damage = 3.875 + Wis average damage.Rogue will have 65% chance to hit and he does .6 * 7.5 + .05 * 10 = 4.925 average damage.A Wizard with Wisdom 14 averages more damage than the Rogue in this scenario.It is only when the Rogue has combat advantage and can Sneak Attack that he really has a damage advantage.Rogue will then have 75% chance to hit and he does .7 * 14.5 + .05 * 24 = 11.35 average damage.But, the Wizard can make up a lot of that by being able to target two or more opponents with Scorching Burst. Two targets = 7.75 average damage. Three targets = 11.625 average damage. More than 3 targets, the Wizard rules.Plus, the low level Wizard can often target all 3 of the non-AC defenses whereas the low level Rogue can typically only target one. If he can figure out which defense is the lowest, the Wizard can often make up some of the Rogue's +3 to hit advantage versus Reflex.And in order for the Rogue to gain the +3, he has to use a melee weapon so the Wizard has range advantage (i.e. the potential for cover). If the Rogue uses a crossbow, he is only +2 to hit, but +1 more damage (which results in slightly less damage on average).All in all, the weapon proficiency bonus on Reflex merely evens out the playing field. Sure, the low level Rogue will hit more often against non-AC defenses. That doesn't mean he will always do more damage on average until higher levels. Against AC, the weapon proficiency advantage is not an advantage at all.</blockquote>

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