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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 4405876" data-attributes="member: 5834">Which benefits every class using a melee weapon.You should now better than to list this new ability Illusory ambush when you know it isn't in the PHB. Not an average scenario. I can tell you from experience that isn't how it goes the majority of the time. The wizard doesn't hold a candle to the rogue in an average fight.Much easier to get than the scenario you listed above.The wizard will not always have a chance to do this kind of damage given the way melee is set up. Only a human wizard can do this. Any other wizard is limited to two defenses.I use sly flourish with shuriken. I do quite a bit of ranged damage too.You're analysis is a bit too theoretical. I play a rogue with a wizard. If you were to try to outdo rogue damage with a wizard, I'd bet money the rogue will outdamage the wizard the majority of the time and make the wizard look like a joke on the main BBEGs which is to say the main encounter as in the one that looks real cool in the adventure story.My analysis was based on actual play, not theoretical. I listed circumstances that we deal with in my campaign. And in actual play, my rogue outshines the wizard for damage by a rather significant margin. After the minions are dead, the wizard is often reduced to magic missile or some other single target attack that pales in comparison to the rogue or ranger. And often pales even to the warlock.The creatures move so much, especially kobolds and goblins that landing a Cloud of Daggers on them is quite difficult. So most of the wizards I've played with haven't even taken that ability.If the average creature has a A.C. only 1.5 better than Reflex defense, than wizards are worse off than I thought. Because even your Divine Challenging paladins are doing more single target damage with a better chance to hit than a wizard.On top of that the cleric's at will ranged attacks give a better added benefit than the wizard as well.The 4E wizard is fairly weak at low level. He is a great minion killer, but when it comes to laying down a hard punch I'll take the rogue as number one. The ranger as number two. And the warlock as number three. The wizard is about even with the fighter, though the fighter generally hits easier than the wizard.Warlord is one of the few classes that does less damage than the wizard with melee attacks, though he can at least allow others to do more damage.I don't know if you're trying to talk the wizard up because you play one or are just theorizing.I know in actual play that melees have been hitting easier than wizards, clerics, and warlocks because of the weapon proficiency bonus. The wepaon proficiency bonus often offsets the advantage of striking against a different defense, though Illusory Ambush will help that since alot of creatures do have weak will. But as you noted, Fort and ref defenses are pretty comparable to A.C. The thing about wizards though is that their at will attacks don't have nifty added extras like the clerics or the warlocks. That is part of the reason I rate them lower than clerics and warlocks as far as useful at wills.I'm sure you read the clerics. If he hits every so often that is fine because he is doing some damage and giving a bonus to a party member.The warlock (infernal) cursing people gives him quite a few temporary hit points and that extra added pop when he does hit.So the wizard has the weakest single target Damage in the game. Even their burst damage (I don't mean AoE, I mean ability to increase damage against a single target) often isn't on par with the strikers. This is by design. Personally, I'm fine with that. Because as you stated a wizard can do an impressive amount of aggregate damage. But for those players that are used to playing a wizard that can hit hard, it may be a disappointment. In 4E wizards are going to have to be content with doing a bit of damage spread over many targets. That means that if you look at the bad guys as nails, the wizard is doing a moderate tap to several different nails, while the strikers are bringing the hammer down hard sealing the coffin with one big smash.</blockquote>

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