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<blockquote data-quote="Mannahnin" data-source="post: 9048751" data-attributes="member: 7026594">Yes, both.&nbsp; My recollection from traditional folk tales is that tricking the troll or jotun into being exposed to sunlight, and/or manipulating their fear of being caught in daylight, was a familiar concept.&nbsp; I'm sorry that I don't have a good specific reference to point at right now, though.But let's not get caught in the D&amp;D lens of trying to draw strict categories between things which didn't exist as such in older texts.&nbsp; To my understanding Anderson's and Tolkien's elves draw on a few sources, including the Norse alfar and the Celtic fairies and sidhe.&nbsp; We have examples of elves and fairies being conflated from several centuries ago, as in Milton's Paradise Lost, book one line 781 where he refers to 'fairy elves', fairy here is an adjective describing the elves. Or a 16th century example from a poem by Alexander Montgomerie, with fairy, elf, and incubi all being used interchangeably: &quot;The King of Fairy, and his Court, with the Elf Queen,with many elvish Incubi was riding that night.&quot;.Perhaps it's my background in the Irish tales, but Tolkien's elves (and Anderson's) have most strongly recollected to me the Daoine Sidhe or Aos Sidhe, the people of the fairy hills.&nbsp; The noble folk of whom are always described in the tales as human sized but of otherworldly beauty.My understanding is that elves and fairies being small, tiny sprite like things is to some extent a product of the Victorians.&nbsp; Though in older tales there are at least two major categories of elves, some of whom are tall and other small, as mentioned, for example, <a href="https://lairbhan.blogspot.com/2022/" target="_blank">here</a>, by the folklorist Morgan Daimler.Interestingly, if you look at the elves in The Hobbit, they are still not yet quite the great and powerful and dramatic figures we see in LotR, with Elrond perhaps excepted.&nbsp;&nbsp; The song the elves in Rivendell sing to Bilbo and the dwarves leaps to mind.[URL unfurl=&quot;true&quot;]https://allpoetry.com/O!-Where-Are-You-Going-[/URL]</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mannahnin, post: 9048751, member: 7026594"] Yes, both. My recollection from traditional folk tales is that tricking the troll or jotun into being exposed to sunlight, and/or manipulating their fear of being caught in daylight, was a familiar concept. I'm sorry that I don't have a good specific reference to point at right now, though. But let's not get caught in the D&D lens of trying to draw strict categories between things which didn't exist as such in older texts. To my understanding Anderson's and Tolkien's elves draw on a few sources, including the Norse alfar and the Celtic fairies and sidhe. We have examples of elves and fairies being conflated from several centuries ago, as in Milton's Paradise Lost, book one line 781 where he refers to '[I]fairy elves[/I]', fairy here is an adjective describing the elves. Or a 16th century example from a poem by Alexander Montgomerie, with fairy, elf, and incubi all being used interchangeably: "[I]The King of Fairy, and his Court, with the Elf Queen,with many elvish Incubi was riding that night[/I].". Perhaps it's my background in the Irish tales, but Tolkien's elves (and Anderson's) have most strongly recollected to me the Daoine Sidhe or Aos Sidhe, the people of the fairy hills. The noble folk of whom are always described in the tales as human sized but of otherworldly beauty. My understanding is that elves and fairies being small, tiny sprite like things is to some extent a product of the Victorians. Though in older tales there are at least two major categories of elves, some of whom are tall and other small, as mentioned, for example, [URL='https://lairbhan.blogspot.com/2022/']here[/URL], by the folklorist Morgan Daimler. Interestingly, if you look at the elves in The Hobbit, they are still not yet quite the great and powerful and dramatic figures we see in LotR, with Elrond perhaps excepted. The song the elves in Rivendell sing to Bilbo and the dwarves leaps to mind. [URL unfurl="true"]https://allpoetry.com/O!-Where-Are-You-Going-[/URL] [/QUOTE]

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