Appraising Gems - Any Suggestions?

[Boregar]

During our ongoing KotS game last week, I had included a gemstone rather than some GP's in a NPC's selection of treasure, just for a bit of different flavour. However, when it was discovered, the PC naturally wanted to try to appraise it. And of course, the appraise skill is now gone.

I just suggested a general intelligence check at the time, but I was wondering if anyone could suggest a better alternative?

 

[MeMeMeMe]

An INT roll sounds good enough to me. Also, one skill that might work is Dungeoneering: gems come from out of the ground

That said, I'd probably just tell the players what it's worth, and assume that appraising gems and other valuables is an ability that all adventurers get for free (bless their greedy little hearts).
I can't remember a time that using Appraise in the old edition made the game more fun for the players, and can think of a few times it was a hassle.

 

[Lord Xtheth]

I would think thievery would work

 

[1of3]

I'd vote for Insight. Demand is just another form of volition.

 

[LowSpine]

Perception.

But to be honest unless it is in some way special I wouldn't bother.

History - It is the gem missing, from the time of the king's great grandfather's reign, from the royal crown - take it to the king and he will probably pay full-double price + some good will.

 

[LowSpine]

I would think thievery would work

I would only use Thievery if the gem was stolen - you know how much you can get for it when selling to fence.

 

[Celebrim]

I think that the 4e method would be just tell them what the gemstone is worth.

I recall alot of posters on the boards complaining that the 3.X 'Appraise' skill was useless. After querying this for a while, it turned out that most of them where simply being given the value or quality of everything without any fuss. That is to say, 'Appraise' was useless because it wasn't being used.

Much like tracking encumbrance, or tracking ammunition, or various other bookkeeping tasks, alot of groups seem to have hand waved appraise out of the game because it distracted from what they saw as core gameplay. Based on the fact that appraise was dropped from the skill list, I'd guess that 4e was designed with these players in mind.

As such, I'd guess to play in the 4e fashion the best bet is just to tell them 'its a 100 gp gem' or 'its a masterwork sword' or 'the painting is worth 40000 gp'. Actually, that last one is probably not very 4e-ish, because paintings aren't functionally equivalent to cash, and I think 4e style play would depricate dealing with physical tangible treasure in favor of abstract value. Basically, you swipe your 'gold dungeon card' and add the value of the treasure to your credit. Or run over the square and the treasure appears as a gold number floating above your characters head which is added to your score.

But, assuming that isn't your style of play, I think that the proper skill to include 'Appraise' under is that catch all uber skill, 'Insight'. Unlike 'theivery' another uber-skill that might seem to fit, 'Insight' isn't Dexterity based and specifically covers the ability to learn something by studying.

 

[Wormwood]

I think that the 4e method would be just tell them what the gemstone is worth.

I agree.

In my experience, players wanting to know how much a gem is worth indicates that they want to know how much the gem is worth.

So tell 'em already

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think that the 4e method would be just tell them what the gemstone is worth.

I recall alot of posters on the boards complaining that the 3.X 'Appraise' skill was useless. After querying this for a while, it turned out that most of them where simply being given the value or quality of everything without any fuss. That is to say, 'Appraise' was useless because it wasn't being used.

Maybe it was also because of "meta-gaming". If you found jewels, yes, you could have used Appraise. If you found a magical item, most prices could easily be known. A +3 sword is worth 18.000 gp or 9.000 gp when selling it. A Level 4 Scroll is worth 4 x 7 x 25 gp. And stuff like that.

So, you needed Appraise only for a subset of the items. But you got tons of them. Imagine nobody appraised the item. The DM would have to write down the worth of each item on a list hidden from the players.
And then, you'd have eventually to roll for each individual item.
And what happens if you go to a buyer - how do you arrive at the price if both you and the buyer could fail to appraise the item, or have different opinions. What if the players demand to use Sense Motive to see if the buyer is ripping them off instead of relying on Appraise?

In the end, Appraise is a lot of hassle that earns you little benefit.

The only fun use of Appraise is if you'd actually roleplay out a haggling scenario. But then, Diplomacy, Bluff, Intimidate and Sense Motive should be enough skills to pull this off.

My guesses for appropriate skills in 4E would be any of the following:
- Arcana
- History
- Insight
- Perception
Edit: - Thievery actually is my favourite ATM. And I missed it initially!

 

[Daniel D. Fox]

4E would simply accept that players would know the value. However, I disagree entirely with this notion.

I'd use Insight with an Expert check, modified by Paragon or Epic. I'd use Thievery Expert check, modified by Paragon or Epic to figure out where to fence the jewelry were they stolen.