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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pbartender" data-source="post: 3410795" data-attributes="member: 7533">Hello, everyone...   I'm one of the other players in this game and said DM is my wife, so I've got an interest in seeing this resolved definitively.   <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> For those of you whoare suggesting that Spot checks should always apply, may I present a situation? As Mr. Pico suggested above, let's start with a football field (American style <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> ).I stand at one end of the stadium, in the stands, and Mr. Pico is in the stands at the other end, 400 feet away.  It is a bright, sunny day, and the stadium is empty, except for us two. the SRD guidelines for "Stealth and Detection in Plains" (and by the description of a plain, a football field and stadium is argueably a very small one) suggests 6d6x40 feet as the initial distance for encounters.  That's 240-1,440 feet, so for now, let's assume that we rolled higher than 400 feet, which I think is reasonable.If, in this empty stadium, Mr. Pico was just walking out in the open down the empty rows of seats 400 feet away from me, should I have to make a Spot check with a -40 modifer simply to notice he was there? Especially if I was specifically looking for him? I'd need at least a Spot check of at least +20 to even have the slightest chance of seeing him.Now, if he was crouched behind the seats (actively hiding), or the stands were crowded with football fans (concealment), I can understand that sort of a Spot check.  But, if you applied the Spot check as is to every situation, the vast majority of people would be half blind at about 100 feet, and effectively blind past about 200 feet.This, essentially, was the situation.  Two medium-sized humanoids, who weren't actively hiding and with no intervening obstructions or concealment, pacing back and forth in an open space, but who were judged to be effectively hidden because of the Spot check range modifers, even thought the Spotter was told precisely where to look for them.Our Spotter, a flying wizard at the time, wanted to get just close enough to drop a long-range fireball on their heads, but was told he would have to get within a hundred feet or so because of that range penalty.</blockquote>

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