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<blockquote data-quote="Pbartender" data-source="post: 3410904" data-attributes="member: 7533">Yes, I saw that...&nbsp; And saw your interpretation of it.&nbsp; That doesn't mean I agree with you, or that you're right.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Right now, I can look out the window of my workshop.&nbsp; Across the street, on the opposite side of a pond standing in front of a line of trees, I can see a man fishing.&nbsp; According to <a href="http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/" target="_blank">Gmaps Pedometer</a>, he is nearly 400 ft away from where I'm sitting. I wouldn't say he's &quot;difficult to see&quot;.&nbsp; For that matter there's a building down the street, about 1000 feet away, and I can distinctly see a man standing and smoking a cigarette.Go to that website.&nbsp; Look up where you are right now.&nbsp; Find something 400 feet (about 0.076 miles) away.&nbsp; Go look at it.&nbsp; It's not as far as you might think.So, how do you determine &quot;difficult to see&quot;, which is a rather relative term here for so instrumental a skill?&nbsp; Would &quot;camoflaged, concealed or hiding&quot; be a good rule of them, do you think?&nbsp; If so, the guards in question fit none of those three descriptors.It appears that way simply because I didn't mention them.&nbsp; She gave them Spot checks with the same modifers.&nbsp; Our wizard jsut happened to succeed before they did.That's the point...&nbsp; We were &quot;aware&quot; of the guards. Our rogue had scouted them out. The wizard wanted to use the surprise round to cast a fireball.&nbsp; It was ruled that he could see the roof-platform that the guards were standing on, but he couldn't see the guards themselves so that he accurately target both of them in the area of effect -- he just wanted to be certain that he'd hit them both.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Pbartender, post: 3410904, member: 7533"] Yes, I saw that... And saw your interpretation of it. That doesn't mean I agree with you, or that you're right. ;) Right now, I can look out the window of my workshop. Across the street, on the opposite side of a pond standing in front of a line of trees, I can see a man fishing. According to [url=http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/]Gmaps Pedometer[/url], he is nearly 400 ft away from where I'm sitting. I wouldn't say he's "difficult to see". For that matter there's a building down the street, about 1000 feet away, and I can distinctly see a man standing and smoking a cigarette. Go to that website. Look up where you are right now. Find something 400 feet (about 0.076 miles) away. Go look at it. It's not as far as you might think. So, how do you determine "difficult to see", which is a rather relative term here for so instrumental a skill? Would "camoflaged, concealed or hiding" be a good rule of them, do you think? If so, the guards in question fit none of those three descriptors. It appears that way simply because I didn't mention them. She gave them Spot checks with the same modifers. Our wizard jsut happened to succeed before they did. That's the point... We were "aware" of the guards. Our rogue had scouted them out. The wizard wanted to use the surprise round to cast a fireball. It was ruled that he could see the roof-platform that the guards were standing on, but he couldn't see the guards themselves so that he accurately target both of them in the area of effect -- he just wanted to be certain that he'd hit them both. [/QUOTE]

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