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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sunseeker" data-source="post: 5873003">As I go on to point out, healing surges play into very fantasy concepts like "second winds".  Sure, if we play the 15-minute workday, a party doesn't need a healer, but for a lot of settings that just...doesn't work.  Let me go back to my WoW example for a moment.I can adventure around the world all day and never need a healer.  While this can take up a lot of my time, the vast majority of it is a 15-minute workday with a huge emphasis on exploration and socialization.  To venture into the dragon's lair?  That I need a healer for.  To fight the giant earth elemental?  Need a healer.  Even if I pull together some of the best melee players in the game, without some form of healing, we're not going to get very far.Sure, an all-fighter party can "play smart" and be careful, and not fight too much, but I am going to argue that will water down the whole game a lot more than having some self-healing does.  Personally I think dragging around a guy who's only job, whose only capability is to heal you is a lot more genre damaging than any of that!  I really do think that on the whole, any combination of players and classes should be able to succeed without the Holy Trinity(video game term, directly relates here).  I do not think that games need to be specially tailored in order for a healer-less party to succeed.EX: the damage output of a party of wizards should compensate for their low health and rather easy kills.-the damage avoidance and survivability of a party of fighters should compensate for their low damage.-the avoidance and skill of rogue-types should compensate for their lower defenses and moderate damage.Even if we take the Holy Trinity party design as a baseline, we should be able to reasonably substitute higher damage, higher survivability, and greater ingenuity for a party healer.  Again, I'm going to reference LOTR, which so many people on this board seem to hold as the epitome of a D&D game.  No party healers.  One instance of needing a healer, constant battle jumping, minimal magic, personal-awesomeness miraculous recovery.  That's what Healing Surges really represent, personal awesomeitude, 4e may have run a little too far with the concept, but the ideal remains a good one, and one exemplified by many books/tv shows/movies/comics dealing with the fantasy genre.Any party makeup should reliably be able to accomplish the same tasks if they are played to their strengths.</blockquote>

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