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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5879674" data-attributes="member: 54877">Somewhere sort of halfway between 3E and 4E would be:<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Reduce the number of hit points and surges. This probably needs to be done in any case, so no problem there.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Make death saves not "three strikes and you're out", but "fail the death save, lose a surge--out of surges, you die."</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Finally, the "dial" in this system is that each group can decide to cash in a certain amount of surges permanently, to effectively raise their hit points.</li> </ol>That might not be entirely clear, but what it does is take Firelance's observation about surges to its logical conclusion, and then build in the proper spot to change it by playstyle. Consider a few of the places you can set it. We'll change your example character to 30 hit points and 4 surges, each recovering 20% of hit points:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You play like 4E with smaller numbers. Use "optional" 4E-style death saves.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You play sort of like 4E with smaller numbers. Use as written.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You play like a 4E/3E hybrid with a bit smaller numbers and alternate death save mechanic. You cash in all your surges for hit points except a handful, perhaps 2. The character has 30 x 1.4 = 42 hit points and two surges. You don't need the surges to activate healing, can use them for second wind if you want, but if you hit zero hit points and don't have one left, you die on a failed saving throw.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You play a lot like 3E. You cash in all the surges, giving 54 hit points, and you use some optional dying rule, base it on -Con value, or whatever makes sense to you. Healing is all resource-based.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You play like Basic with a bit bigger numbers. You cash in all your surges for hit points. You've got 54 hit points. When they run out, you die. Healing is resource based, and not always readily available.</li> </ul>Those are all very close to balanced with each other, which means that they can be used in the same system together. Where they aren't balanced, you want the differences. If I pick "sort of 4E emulation," I want it possible that a character can die with surges left, or I use the new standard that death saves cost a surge until you run out. If I pick one of the emulations closer to 3E, I want a big pool of hit points that the characters are expected to manage, hit points are all hit points. The only difference in this and a more direct 1E, 3E, 4E approach is that it's easier to see how to change it, while still keeping it balanced. It does constrain the design to more hit points than Basic, but less than 3E/4E at the upper end. Otherwise, it will get out of control quickly. Lastly, I've roughed this out in a way that makes sense from the 3E and then 4E changes, but the exact same math could be presented to make surges less intrusive. Instead of the default being as above, the default is more like Basic D&D--hit points are hit points, die at zero. Then you provide options for different recovery/death save options, and some of those require you to trade some of those hit points in for surges. The example character has 54 hit points, but if you go with 4E emulation, he has to trade in 24 of those for surges that can recover 6 points each. (Or perhaps you use a slightly different formula to make this easier.) BTW, there are some rather obvious options for Save or Die that you can build into that model.</blockquote>

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