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<blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 5882017" data-attributes="member: 957">Strictly speaking this is true.&nbsp; But only to the same extent that it is true in prior systems.&nbsp; However, the 4E surge system dds obligation that force you to choose demands that were previously absent.If you DO choose to have &quot;physically wounded&quot; then you are required for the naked fighter in the woods to go back to fully charged the next morning despite having been &quot;physically wounded&quot;.Or you can avoid that issue by choosing to forego ever having &quot;physical wounds&quot;.I have freedom to select whatever I want in the system I use with no requirement of choosing one of those restrictions.Until a couple days ago I was saying those were the only options.&nbsp; Now suddenly (after years of debates...) a third option is being presented.&nbsp; That is the option that a character with full hit points and full surges can still be &quot;wounded&quot; and not actually healed.&nbsp; In this case the model is making zero mechanical distinction whatsoever between a wounded character and fully healed character.&nbsp; While my gut reaction is to call that &quot;even worse&quot;, it si really just shades of unacceptable.All the options identified are &quot;incorrect&quot; for cause and effect simulation.I won't dispute that &quot;correct&quot; for gaming is subjective taste.&nbsp; But there are very clear and significant differences.&nbsp; But the problem is 4E *DOES NOT* have these four states.&nbsp; I could grab a character sheet up in the middle of a 4E game and show it to you and it would be completely impossible for you to tell if a character was in state (2) or state (4).&nbsp; They are mechanically indistinguishable.And even that isn't really saying it right.&nbsp; It isn't that they are indistinguishable, it is that they are one and the same.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BryonD, post: 5882017, member: 957"] Strictly speaking this is true. But only to the same extent that it is true in prior systems. However, the 4E surge system dds obligation that force you to choose demands that were previously absent. If you DO choose to have "physically wounded" then you are required for the naked fighter in the woods to go back to fully charged the next morning despite having been "physically wounded". Or you can avoid that issue by choosing to forego ever having "physical wounds". I have freedom to select whatever I want in the system I use with no requirement of choosing one of those restrictions. Until a couple days ago I was saying those were the only options. Now suddenly (after years of debates...) a third option is being presented. That is the option that a character with full hit points and full surges can still be "wounded" and not actually healed. In this case the model is making zero mechanical distinction whatsoever between a wounded character and fully healed character. While my gut reaction is to call that "even worse", it si really just shades of unacceptable. All the options identified are "incorrect" for cause and effect simulation. I won't dispute that "correct" for gaming is subjective taste. But there are very clear and significant differences. But the problem is 4E *DOES NOT* have these four states. I could grab a character sheet up in the middle of a 4E game and show it to you and it would be completely impossible for you to tell if a character was in state (2) or state (4). They are mechanically indistinguishable. And even that isn't really saying it right. It isn't that they are indistinguishable, it is that they are one and the same. [/QUOTE]

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