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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
April 3rd, Rule of 3
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5887586" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>On the noting differences tangent: I'll admit to possibly giving the goalposts a nudge from time to time. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> OTOH, for me, what it usually comes down to is someone saying something like, "4e does X completely differently than what came before." to which I reply, "well, no, it really doesn't because of this and that." In other words, I'll say that 4e is the same as what came before and I'll say it's different from what came before, depending on what we're talking about.</p><p></p><p>What I generally see is, "4e is bad because it's different than what came before" but, if you say, "4e is good because it's different" then everyone jumps up and tells me that 4e is no different than what came before. IOW, 4e is only allowed to be different from what came before if that difference can be cast in a negative light. At no point can any of the differences ever be considered a positive.</p><p></p><p>-----</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, no. I have no problems with going beyond the borders, but, the problem comes when the borders are so vague that no one at the table has a baseline to work from. If I create an illusion of X, is it believable or not? Well, it might be, it might not. It totally depends on DM fiat. So, the spell goes from being virtually useless, to being over powered, and everything in between.</p><p></p><p>Which just makes it harder to run the game.</p><p></p><p>I know that the biggest shift in play for me, going from 2e to 3e, is spending a fraction of the time in arguments. It was a regular thing for the game to come to a screeching halt in 2e IME. Something came up virtually every session. In 3e, the issues because much, much more corner case and came up once in a while, if at all.</p><p></p><p>This was one of the best improvements 3e brought to the game. I finally got a ruleset that worked out of the box. I've been a 3e proponent far, far longer than I've liked the 4e ruleset and there's a bunch of reasons for that. But, the biggest reason is that the 3e system defines in very concrete terms how things are supposed to work.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5887586, member: 22779"] On the noting differences tangent: I'll admit to possibly giving the goalposts a nudge from time to time. :D OTOH, for me, what it usually comes down to is someone saying something like, "4e does X completely differently than what came before." to which I reply, "well, no, it really doesn't because of this and that." In other words, I'll say that 4e is the same as what came before and I'll say it's different from what came before, depending on what we're talking about. What I generally see is, "4e is bad because it's different than what came before" but, if you say, "4e is good because it's different" then everyone jumps up and tells me that 4e is no different than what came before. IOW, 4e is only allowed to be different from what came before if that difference can be cast in a negative light. At no point can any of the differences ever be considered a positive. ----- Well, no. I have no problems with going beyond the borders, but, the problem comes when the borders are so vague that no one at the table has a baseline to work from. If I create an illusion of X, is it believable or not? Well, it might be, it might not. It totally depends on DM fiat. So, the spell goes from being virtually useless, to being over powered, and everything in between. Which just makes it harder to run the game. I know that the biggest shift in play for me, going from 2e to 3e, is spending a fraction of the time in arguments. It was a regular thing for the game to come to a screeching halt in 2e IME. Something came up virtually every session. In 3e, the issues because much, much more corner case and came up once in a while, if at all. This was one of the best improvements 3e brought to the game. I finally got a ruleset that worked out of the box. I've been a 3e proponent far, far longer than I've liked the 4e ruleset and there's a bunch of reasons for that. But, the biggest reason is that the 3e system defines in very concrete terms how things are supposed to work. [/QUOTE]
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April 3rd, Rule of 3
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