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<blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 5891273" data-attributes="member: 957">You and I already had a detailed conversation abotu how you could EASILY pick locks with a spoon in 3E if that was established as part of the character.And here you seem to be missing the point.This is a GOOD thing and is exactly what I was saying.&nbsp; What the rules DON'T do is tell you TO JUMP.&nbsp; You describe your action and then the rules model the result.&nbsp; You pick the cause and then the game tells you the effect.Again you are missing the point.&nbsp; These are all examples of you pick the cause and the rules then figure out the effect.&nbsp; I love that.In 4E you look at your powers and pick an effect.&nbsp; You use Come And Get It on a skeleton, it moves.&nbsp; You use Come And Get It on a guard, he moves.&nbsp; You use Come And Get It on an ooze, it moves.&nbsp; The EFFECT is established.&nbsp; You look at a list of potential EFFECTS and then you go back and think of narrative justification.In 4E you pick and effect and then think of a cause.&nbsp; (The ooze will move....&nbsp; and...&nbsp; umm... HERE is why)&nbsp; [aka &quot;pop quiz gaming&quot;]In pre-4E you pick a cause and the rules tell you the effect.&nbsp; (I jump.&nbsp; You go....&nbsp; THIS far)EDIT: and interestingly enough, this is YET ANOTHER example of something that 4E fans spent the past several years PRAISING but now want to obfuscate.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="BryonD, post: 5891273, member: 957"] You and I already had a detailed conversation abotu how you could EASILY pick locks with a spoon in 3E if that was established as part of the character. And here you seem to be missing the point. This is a GOOD thing and is exactly what I was saying. What the rules DON'T do is tell you TO JUMP. You describe your action and then the rules model the result. You pick the cause and then the game tells you the effect. Again you are missing the point. These are all examples of you pick the cause and the rules then figure out the effect. I love that. In 4E you look at your powers and pick an effect. You use Come And Get It on a skeleton, it moves. You use Come And Get It on a guard, he moves. You use Come And Get It on an ooze, it moves. The EFFECT is established. You look at a list of potential EFFECTS and then you go back and think of narrative justification. In 4E you pick and effect and then think of a cause. (The ooze will move.... and... umm... HERE is why) [aka "pop quiz gaming"] In pre-4E you pick a cause and the rules tell you the effect. (I jump. You go.... THIS far) EDIT: and interestingly enough, this is YET ANOTHER example of something that 4E fans spent the past several years PRAISING but now want to obfuscate. :) [/QUOTE]

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