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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Technik4" data-source="post: 3416056" data-attributes="member: 7211">Magister vs RunethaneI did some comparisons with the Magister and Runethane, mostly for my own amusement. Here are the stats (which do not include Magic Items):Default Array:15,14,13,12,10,8Both are HumanMagister3 vs Runethane3Mag3HP: 2d6+12, BAB:+1, AC: 11, Saves: F +3, R +2, W +4S 10 D 13 C 14 I 15 W 12 C 8Feats: Psion, Eldritch Training, Craft Spell Completion Item, Craft Single-Use ItemSpell Slots: 0-3, 1-3, 2-2Spells Readied: 0-6, 1-4, 2-2Skill Points (2+2+1) x (4) + 10 = 30 skill points (or 5 maxed skills)Rnt3HP: 2d6+12, BAB: +1, AC: 15, Saves: F +3, R +2, W +4S 10 D 13 C 14 I 15 W 12 C 8Feats: Elemental Mage, Eldritch Training, Craft Spell Completion Item, Craft Single-Use ItemSpell Slots: 0-2, 1-3Spells Readied: 0-3, 1-2Lesser Runes Known (4): Rune of Affliction, Rune of Armor, Rune of Conjurin, Rune of WardingRunes Used (3): Rune of Armor, Rune of Conjuring (Summons off of Energy Creature II chart, lasts 3 rounds)Skill Points (4+2+1) x (4) + 14 = 52 skill points (or 7 maxed skills)Magister6 vs Runethane6Mag6HP: 5d6+18, BAB:+3, AC: 11, Saves: F +4, R +3, W +6S 10 D 13 C 14 I 16 W 12 C 8Feats: Psion, Eldritch Training, Craft Spell Completion Item, Craft Single-Use Item, Modify Spell, Energy MageSpell Slots: 0-4, 1-4, 2-4, 3-3Spells Readied: 0-8, 1-5, 2-4, 3-3Familiarity with Magic (Ex): +2 against spells and +2 AC against spellsSkill Points (35) + (12) = 47 skill points (or 5 maxed skills and 2 leftover points)Rnt6HP: 5d6+18, BAB: +3, AC: 15, Saves: F +4, R +3, W +6S 10 D 13 C 14 I 16 W 12 C 8Feats: Elemental Mage, Eldritch Training, Craft Spell Completion Item, Craft Single-Use Item, Modify SpellSpell Slots: 0-3, 1-3, 2-3Spells Readied: 0-4, 1-3, 2-2Lesser Runes Known (6): Rune of Affliction, Rune of Armor, Rune of Conjuring, Rune of Knowledge, Rune of Rest, Rune of WardingAdvanced Runes Known (1): Rune of Advanced ConjuringRunes Used (6): Rune of Armor, Rune of Conjuring (Summons off of Energy Creature II chart, lasts 6 rounds), Invested Rune of Advanced Conjuring (Summons off of Energy Creature V chart, lasts 6 rounds)Skill Points (49) + (16) = 65 skill points (or 7 maxed skills and 2 leftover points)Magister9 vs Runethane9Mag9HP: 8d6+24, BAB:+4, AC: 11, Saves: F +5, R +4, W +7S 10 D 13 C 14 I 17 W 12 C 8Feats: Psion, Eldritch Training, Craft Spell Completion Item, Craft Single-Use Item, Modify Spell, Energy Mage, Creator MageSpell Slots: 0-5, 1-5, 2-5, 3-4, 4-2, 5-1Spells Readied: 0-9, 1-7, 2-5, 3-4, 4-3, 5-2Familiarity with Magic (Ex): +2 against spells and +2 AC against spellsSkill Points (47) + (18) = 65 skill points (or 5 maxed skills and 5 leftover points)Rnt9HP: 8d6+24, BAB: +4, AC: 15, Saves: F +5, R +4, W +7S 10 D 13 C 14 I 17 W 12 C 8Feats: Elemental Mage, Eldritch Training, Craft Spell Completion Item, Craft Single-Use Item, Modify Spell, Creator MageSpell Slots: 0-4, 1-4, 2-3, 3-3Spells Readied: 0-5, 1-4, 2-3, 3-2Lesser Runes Known (6): Rune of Affliction, Rune of Armor, Rune of Conjuring, Rune of Knowledge, Rune of Rest, Rune of WardingAdvanced Runes Known (4): Rune of Advanced Conjuring, Rune of Blasting, Rune of Communication, Rune of HealingRunes Used (9): Rune of Armor, Rune of Communication x2, Invested Rune of Advanced Conjuring (Summons off of Energy Creature V chart, lasts 9 rounds)Skill Points (65) + (24) = 89 skill points (or 7 maxed skills and 5 leftover points)Magister12 vs Runethane12Mag12HP: 11d6+30, BAB:+6/+1, AC: 11, Saves: F +6, R +5, W +9S 10 D 13 C 14 I 18 W 12 C 8Feats: Psion, Eldritch Training, Craft Spell Completion Item, Craft Single-Use Item, Modify Spell, Energy Mage, Creator Mage, Quicken Spell, Craft Constant ItemSpell Slots: 0-5, 1-6, 2-5, 3-5, 4-4, 5-3, 6-2Spells Readied: 0-9, 1-8, 2-7, 3-6, 4-5, 5-4, 6-3Familiarity with Magic (Ex): +2 against spells and +2 AC against spellsLesser Aspect of Power (Su): Distinct VoiceSkill Points (65) + (18) = 83 skill points (or 5 maxed skills and 8 leftover points)Rnt12HP: 11d6+30, BAB: +6/+1, AC: 15, Saves: F +6, R +5, W +9S 10 D 13 C 14 I 18 W 12 C 8Feats: Elemental Mage, Eldritch Training, Craft Spell Completion Item, Craft Single-Use Item, Modify Spell, Creator Mage, Craft Constant ItemSpell Slots: 0-4, 1-4, 2-4, 3-3, 4-3Spells Readied: 0-6, 1-5, 2-4, 3-3, 4-2Lesser Runes Known (6): Rune of Affliction, Rune of Armor, Rune of Conjuring, Rune of Knowledge, Rune of Rest, Rune of WardingAdvanced Runes Known (5): Rune of Advanced Conjuring, Rune of Blasting, Rune of Communication, Rune of Healing, Rune of EnrichmentGreater Runes Known (2): Elemental Rune, Rune of Greater ConjuringRunes Used (12): Invested Rune of Armor, Rune of Communication x2, Invested Rune of Greater Conjuring (Summons off of Energy Creature VII chart, lasts 12 rounds)Familiarity with Magic (Ex): +2 against spells and +2 AC against spellsSkill Points (89) + (24) = 113 skill points (or 7 maxed skills and 8 leftover points)Analysis:Overall a magister can greatly exceed a runethane in magical might (though this was never really in contention). It seems a Runethane will generally have 1 'trick' that will generally be beyond the magister's ability to duplicate, though this invariably will be summoning a higher level creature. This power is especially powerful on a runethane because as a touch-trigger rune, you can activate it as a standard action (as opposed to summoning which is a full-round action). Indeed since writing lesser and advanced runes only takes a full-round action, this 'trick' is usable more than once per encounter (full-round to write a new rune, standard to activate it). While cumbersome, you can certainly get a lot of bang for your buck (and at lower levels, you never really run out of summoning gas). At higher levels the greater runes take a full minute to write, so there will be some downtime necessary to rewrite a rune of Greater Conjuration, but given that time it can basically be used 1/encounter (and if it is invested, its rather potent).I think with more runes and a way to learn new runes via feats the class could be seen as powerful as the Magister. The Magister is just the Wizard, with no option for specialization, a bigger HD, and some nifty flavor (staff, lesser aspect of power). Also note that he loses out on the free Srcibe Scroll feat and the familiar that the wizard have in exchange for the HD. Of course, without arcane/divine restrictions he has access to healing spells and templates and feats give him many more options for his spell slots (ladening with templates, heightened and diminished options, etc).The final analysis has Magisters as the more powerful class, but Runethanes have a small niche. I'm not sure they would be overpowered with a Medium BAB (so you can play an Arcane Archer-type character with minimal feat-dipping (Martial Weapons, Point Blank, Precise)), but I don't think they are too weak without it. Certainly they are a viable class, though as stated more runes and feats geared for a runethane would make the class more desirable. It's also odd that they have both Open Locks and Disable Device, but Search is noticably absent from their skill list (yet present on the Magister's, who has neither!).</blockquote>

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