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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Felon" data-source="post: 1069787" data-attributes="member: 8158">Re: pay attention and learn to admit when you're wrong!Neg, you're stirring up a subject that was being put to rest with a bunch of silly, inflammatory nonsense, is what you're doing. Well, some folks aren't content leave well enough alone, so here we go...Great, but since that isn't actually what happened, it seems to have no bearing here. A classic attack of obtuseness. So you think you are the arbiter of what is or isn't an issue for all gamers, is that it? Here are the differences between us: I've supported my position at every step. I presented my arguement for why I think it's an issue for me and potentially other gamers. I presented the design diary quotes that were the basis of my expectations, and the responses have generally been to point out that death is a bigger pain in the butt, while the quote definitely spoke of death as if it should have a degree of permanency. (Now, lemme guess; someone's rebuttal is sure to be "Well, Monte pointed out that death will be permanent--for kings that have been dead for centuries! See? That's all he meant. Can't fault'im for people leaping wildly to the conclusion that he was actually implying death should have a degree of permanency for players." rofl)And the most significant difference between us: I've responded to my opponents' fairly, and I've been reasonably civil in the verbal sparring up to this point. So has Volcivar, come to think of it. I've even conceded a number of good points to the opposition.You're right; no big deal at all...which means you'll feel free to admit you were wrong because I say so, right? Do you see how obtuse that statement is now, Neg? If not, then here's the thing: I often feel the exact same frustration with people who totally disagree with my strongest convictions. What an eye-opener, huh? Man, you deserve the mother-of-all-noogies right about now! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f621.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":mad:" title="Mad    :mad:"  data-smilie="4"data-shortname=":mad:" />Your entire rant here seems to be based on the notion that because you don't see someone's point, it's been disproven and they should abandon their position. Obviously, I don't stop defending my position because I don't happen to think I'm wrong--in fact, I'm certain I'm not. I know I'm not the only person who might've read that design diary entry from Monte and will find it to be misleading in regards to how AU actually handles death and disfigurement. I think it's reasonable for someone to read that entry and think that he's actually saying something other than  "People should die. It's a fact. A world with no death diminishes the rewards for success and the consequences of failure--of course, I just mean musty old mcguffins stay dead, not anyone who's only died in the last year or so. Certainly not PC's." <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />But of course, nobody will rub their chin and say, "Hey, Felon you actually have a point there--that quote isn't all that hard to misconstrue. I guess I didn't see that at first because I never had a problem with players getting raised all the time. People who do might be buying that book with false--yet reasonably derived--expectations." Nobody will say that because nobody wants to give an inch, much less admit they're wrong. Right Neg? Your simple equation is negated by the fact that the quote does strongly imply permanency, not inconvenience. And yes, you can mislead a person with won't you don't say, and people can fault you for a sin of omission.Here's where you're getting ridiculous and inflammatory. This is a commercial product, not something for his personal usage. It is indeed reasonable for people who shell out money for it to have it live up to their expectations when those expectations were generated by the author's statements. How do you know I'm the minority? Because nobody in this thread is siding with me? Maybe don't want to say something when they know that they're in a thread with a lot of fanboys hanging around? Yes, I'm one individual--just like you. I expressed my extreme disappointment in this aspect of AU. Guess what? I'm totally entitled to do that, Neg, regardless of whether or not I'm in the minority. Giving individual gamers a voice is one of the reasons ENWorld forums is here. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I express an opinion knowing full well exactly how many people will disagree or agree beforehand...Granted, I know that there a lot of people still on a honeymoon with AU, and they're posting rave reviews all over the Internet without giving it time to cool off and view it objectively, so I do expect some fanboy opposition. OTOH, I do expect a few people to read my posts and comment objectively. From everything you've said above, where you make points that I've already addressed, it seems you did a quick skim-n'-blast.I say to you, if you want to take part in a spirited discussion, then put on your verbal sparring gear. Actually read what the person's saying and come up with well-supported counter-arguements, rather than trolling for responses with a line like "why can't people who are expressing disappointment in things I don't care about be quiet and accept that they've been disproven?" Yes it is. I feel your pain.Now you know I guess; don't what to be ignored? Provoke a response with a lot of inflammatory, inaccurate #%@&.</blockquote>

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