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<blockquote data-quote="Gadget" data-source="post: 7942468" data-attributes="member: 23716"><p>While there has always been a certain amount of overlap between the traditionally "Divine" and "Arcane" spellcasters through the editions (<em>Hold Person</em> and <em>Light</em> come to mind off the top of my head), and I don't really agree with the OP's examples (Bards have pretty much always been able to cast healing spells, that is not new to 5e), I do lament the lack of "niche protection" complained about in the OP.</p><p></p><p>Spell casters used to be much more defined by their spell list and what spells they had access to, in addition to other class features (turning undead, weapon and armor proficiency, no "edged weapons" prohibition, etc.). Sure, as stated above, there was always some overlap, but in 5e this has been taken further than most editions; its far too easy to just raid other class's spell lists, either through a (sub)class feature, multi-classing, feats or what have you. While I can see how reducing the mechanical division in the spells themselves is beneficial in an economy of rules type way (all spells are the the same level for every class for example), it does start to encroach on the feel or story of the classes, imo. Which is ironic, given that one of 5e's goals was to focus on the <em>story</em> of the class and have the mechanics get out of the way. </p><p></p><p>3.x & Pathfinder had the potential, with a more complex mechanical framework, to get the story you want by manipulating the rules formulae in the right manner, sometimes at the cost of effectiveness, but tended to get bogged down or overloaded with said mechanics.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gadget, post: 7942468, member: 23716"] While there has always been a certain amount of overlap between the traditionally "Divine" and "Arcane" spellcasters through the editions ([I]Hold Person[/I] and [I]Light[/I] come to mind off the top of my head), and I don't really agree with the OP's examples (Bards have pretty much always been able to cast healing spells, that is not new to 5e), I do lament the lack of "niche protection" complained about in the OP. Spell casters used to be much more defined by their spell list and what spells they had access to, in addition to other class features (turning undead, weapon and armor proficiency, no "edged weapons" prohibition, etc.). Sure, as stated above, there was always some overlap, but in 5e this has been taken further than most editions; its far too easy to just raid other class's spell lists, either through a (sub)class feature, multi-classing, feats or what have you. While I can see how reducing the mechanical division in the spells themselves is beneficial in an economy of rules type way (all spells are the the same level for every class for example), it does start to encroach on the feel or story of the classes, imo. Which is ironic, given that one of 5e's goals was to focus on the [I]story[/I] of the class and have the mechanics get out of the way. 3.x & Pathfinder had the potential, with a more complex mechanical framework, to get the story you want by manipulating the rules formulae in the right manner, sometimes at the cost of effectiveness, but tended to get bogged down or overloaded with said mechanics. [/QUOTE]
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