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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Torin Ironfist" data-source="post: 3647645" data-attributes="member: 53615">Maybe its because i do not have the past years of experience in D&D as some do, but I dont see why this argument is not what you like to speak of in a rules forum... it seems to me this would be the exact type of argument you would want to talk about in a rules forum.  I am not looking to annoy or anger anyone, and if thats the generally accepted idea then i can take our query elsewhere, but the argument in question is an argument about a rule.  Not finding any specific rule to tell us how exactly this works, I, being the curious type, would like to find out if there are any official rulings, or, if not, how it is played in house.  Again, I dont have a ton of experience playing D&D, so if this next statement seems completely obtuse, please go easy on me.  I do interpret a touch attack to be easier because you are not trying to do any physical damage to an opponent, just touch them... if i had to do the rest of a normal strike against an opponent with a touch attack, then it wouldnt be just a touch, but a hit, and in that hit i would cause damage.  I dont go around swinging at my friends and staying "see that?!  i touched you!" .  The essence of a touch attack is that all you have to do is touch another person/thing/etc in order to transfer some sort of energy, kinetic or magical.  I do not see how this invalidates my argument at all.  I agree completely that a missed normal attack doesnt suggest that you have touched your opponent, it doesnt have any bearing on what you did, other than missing your target.  Please explain how this invalidates an argument.  I never argued that if i miss my opponent i should automatically do shocking grasp damage because "i touched them anyways".  The nifty little idea that rgard had earlier is probably what you are referring to, and that was only if you miss with your total attack +'s, but without the shocking grasp +3, but would have hit with the shocking grasp +3 (the idea being you swung, missed, but got close enough that the electricity jumped, as electricity does, from your weapon, to the metal object it is attracted to on the opponent.. which is why you were getting the +3 from shocking grasp in the first place).  I have to run out with the GF, but will be back to finish my thought in a few hours... sorry for the half response.P.S.  I totally agree with you on interpretations... its the essence of table top roleplaying.. to interpret the situation in your mind however you please.  Which is why i interpret power attack to be as such: swinging harder, with less accuracy.  Yes in the real world, that may just damage your weapon and leave you with nothing to show for it, but in the game, the name of the feat, as well as the feats pre reqs (str 13) say it is a str based skill, not a dex based skill of positioning your attack... but again, you may interpret it as you like, and i will not bat an eye, nor should you. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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