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<blockquote data-quote="Jimlock" data-source="post: 5698859" data-attributes="member: 6674931"><p>from the text you sited:</p><p></p><p><span style="color: Olive"><u><span style="color: Lime">Meeting Class Requirements:</span></u> It’s possible for a character</span></p><p><span style="color: Olive">to take levels in a prestige class and later be in a position</span></p><p><span style="color: Olive">where the character no longer qualifies to be a member of the</span></p><p><span style="color: Olive">class.<u> <span style="color: Lime">An alignment change</span></u>, <u><span style="color: Lime">levels lost because of character</span></u></span></p><p><span style="color: Olive"><u><span style="color: Lime">death</span></u>, or <u><span style="color: Lime">the loss of a magic item that granted an important</span></u></span></p><p><span style="color: Olive"><u><span style="color: Lime">ability</span></u> are examples of events that can make a character ineligible</span></p><p><span style="color: Olive">to advance farther in a prestige class.</span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: Olive">If a character <u><span style="color: Lime">no longer meets the requirements</span></u> for a</span></p><p><span style="color: Olive">prestige class, he or she loses the benefit of any class features</span></p><p><span style="color: Olive">or other special abilities granted by the class. The character</span></p><p><span style="color: Olive">retains Hit Dice gained from advancing in the class as well as</span></p><p><span style="color: Olive">any improvements to base attack bonus and base save bonuses</span></p><p><span style="color: Olive">that the class provided.</span></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: Olive">Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the</span></p><p><span style="color: Olive">indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus,</span></p><p><span style="color: Olive">or other quality designated in order <u><span style="color: Lime">to select or use that feat.</span></u></span></p><p><span style="color: Olive"></span></p><p><span style="color: Olive">A character <u><span style="color: Lime">can’t use a feat</span></u> if he or she has lost a prerequisite.</span></p><p><span style="color: Olive">For example, if your character’s Strength drops below 13</span></p><p><span style="color: Olive">because a ray of enfeeblement spell, he or she <u><span style="color: Lime">can’t use the Power</span></u></span></p><p><span style="color: Olive"><u><span style="color: Lime">Attack feat</span></u> until the prerequisite is once again met.</span></p><p></p><p>NOWHERE does it say that:</p><p></p><p>"Meeting the requirements" (a feat for a PrC) = being able to use that feat.</p><p></p><p>...and not simply having selected/"having"/knowing that feat.</p><p></p><p>The text explicitly says that you must fulfill requirements in order to SELECT or USE a feat, as it explicitly says that if you lose requirements you can't USE the feat.</p><p></p><p>NOWHERE does it say that if you lose a prerequisite, you lose the feat altogether.</p><p></p><p>You can yell and shout and moan, but NOWHERE is it written down that "meeting class requirements" means what you claim it means.</p><p></p><p>Moreover, the examples stated are the following:</p><p>1)Alignment change</p><p>2)levels lost because of character death</p><p>3)the loss of a magic item that granted an important ability.</p><p></p><p>#s 1 & 2 are pretty clear, so let's stick to #3 so as to respond to this:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>When a magic item grants an ability, and this ability copies a class ability or feat, the magic item magically grants you ALL the knowledge required so as to allow you to do what it grants you. A ring of power attack grants you the knowledge of an experienced swordsman, thus permitting you to wield the sword in the appropriate way so as to receive Power Attack's benefits. You lose the ring, you lose the knowledge. No longer do you KNOW/HAVE Power Attack.</p><p></p><p>OTOH, if you have already selected Power Attack as a feat, it means that you have the knowledge and experience in you, that you have mastered the art, which will grant you Power Attack's benefits. Even if you lose some strength, the knowledge sticks with you, it doesn't evaporate as with the loss of the ring (You have already SELECTED/MASTERED that feat. You HAVE that feat).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Don't twist the words of others, so as to create an effect. NOONE said that "you can still <u>use</u> power attack as a qualifier"</p><p></p><p>What we say is that by not being able to use a feat temporarily, does not mean you lose the feat altogether, as explained above.</p><p></p><p>What is bizarre in the extreme, is saying that if your muscles get weakened, you lose a swordsman's knowledge.</p><p></p><p>So, again, not only what you claim is not supported by RAW... It is not even supported by RAI.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jimlock, post: 5698859, member: 6674931"] from the text you sited: [COLOR="Olive"][U][COLOR="Lime"]Meeting Class Requirements:[/COLOR][/U] It’s possible for a character to take levels in a prestige class and later be in a position where the character no longer qualifies to be a member of the class.[U] [COLOR="Lime"]An alignment change[/COLOR][/U], [U][COLOR="Lime"]levels lost because of character death[/COLOR][/U], or [U][COLOR="Lime"]the loss of a magic item that granted an important ability[/COLOR][/U] are examples of events that can make a character ineligible to advance farther in a prestige class.[/COLOR] [COLOR="Olive"]If a character [U][COLOR="Lime"]no longer meets the requirements[/COLOR][/U] for a prestige class, he or she loses the benefit of any class features or other special abilities granted by the class. The character retains Hit Dice gained from advancing in the class as well as any improvements to base attack bonus and base save bonuses that the class provided.[/COLOR] [COLOR="Olive"]Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order [U][COLOR="Lime"]to select or use that feat.[/COLOR][/U] A character [U][COLOR="Lime"]can’t use a feat[/COLOR][/U] if he or she has lost a prerequisite. For example, if your character’s Strength drops below 13 because a ray of enfeeblement spell, he or she [U][COLOR="Lime"]can’t use the Power Attack feat[/COLOR][/U] until the prerequisite is once again met.[/COLOR] NOWHERE does it say that: "Meeting the requirements" (a feat for a PrC) = being able to use that feat. ...and not simply having selected/"having"/knowing that feat. The text explicitly says that you must fulfill requirements in order to SELECT or USE a feat, as it explicitly says that if you lose requirements you can't USE the feat. NOWHERE does it say that if you lose a prerequisite, you lose the feat altogether. You can yell and shout and moan, but NOWHERE is it written down that "meeting class requirements" means what you claim it means. Moreover, the examples stated are the following: 1)Alignment change 2)levels lost because of character death 3)the loss of a magic item that granted an important ability. #s 1 & 2 are pretty clear, so let's stick to #3 so as to respond to this: When a magic item grants an ability, and this ability copies a class ability or feat, the magic item magically grants you ALL the knowledge required so as to allow you to do what it grants you. A ring of power attack grants you the knowledge of an experienced swordsman, thus permitting you to wield the sword in the appropriate way so as to receive Power Attack's benefits. You lose the ring, you lose the knowledge. No longer do you KNOW/HAVE Power Attack. OTOH, if you have already selected Power Attack as a feat, it means that you have the knowledge and experience in you, that you have mastered the art, which will grant you Power Attack's benefits. Even if you lose some strength, the knowledge sticks with you, it doesn't evaporate as with the loss of the ring (You have already SELECTED/MASTERED that feat. You HAVE that feat). Don't twist the words of others, so as to create an effect. NOONE said that "you can still [U]use[/U] power attack as a qualifier" What we say is that by not being able to use a feat temporarily, does not mean you lose the feat altogether, as explained above. What is bizarre in the extreme, is saying that if your muscles get weakened, you lose a swordsman's knowledge. So, again, not only what you claim is not supported by RAW... It is not even supported by RAI. [/QUOTE]
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