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Message: <blockquote data-quote="RodneyThompson" data-source="post: 4713287" data-attributes="member: 3594">Except those two "problems" with rituals really aren't, at least in my book. The reason rituals are designed that way is so that they don't become the automatic solution to every problem. If ritual casting becomes fast and cheap, you're right back to the same problem of spellcasting overshadowing skill use/non-spellcasting classes.One less than optimal ritual does not a problem make. Besides, there might be situations where you want a ritual like that but don't have the ability to send the fighter down to the market; for example, if we're all camped out in the ruins of an old watchtower in the middle of nowhere, we could use the ritual to hide the firelight from the Nazgul who are hunting us. Sure, it's corner case, and I'd probably not pay money for it...but I wouldn't be upset to find that in a treasure hoard.Like I said above to Alaxk, rituals are designed in such a way as to not be the default solution to every problem. They are tools, just like any other character has, but they are not solutions. The moment you make them usable in combat, the moment you're right back to the same issues as before. That's why I think a blanket rule allowing any ritual to be cast in less than its intended time is a bad idea; it undoes the work that's been done to ensure that spellcasting doesn't obviate the usefulness of other characters and their skills.That said, I love the idea of the "perform a ritual" skill challenge for a specific instance of a specific ritual. I think that's a really neat thing to include in an adventure, and would make a very tense encounter when players have to choose between contributing to the challenge or fighting off the bad guys. However, if you just say, "Any ritual can be performed faster as a skill challenge" then suddenly I think you get players walking around with the mentality that magic can solve all of their problems. We're in a tough fight? No problem, we'll just skill challenge a teleport ritual to get away. You could probably specifically engineer some rituals to work fine when performed as a skill challenge, but you've got to be careful that the ritual doesn't negate entire encounters or skill sets. It does make a really neat treasure reward, though, to get a scroll with a ritual on it that can be cast as a skill challenge. I can definitely see putting some scrolls in the treasure that allow you to perform a ritual faster, but since it's on a scroll your players won't be able to do it all of the time, just sometimes. It's like the DM handing the players one "get out of jail free" card without handing them the ability to get out of jail every single time. I think that's a nice compromise (and may start putting things like that in the treasure for my own players).</blockquote>

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