Arcane Power: Vestige Pact

Almacov

First Post
I'm a little surprised I'm not seeing more discussion on this one... is this: NEVER SPLIT THE PARTY
The first confirmation that the new Warlock Pact in Arcane Power involves vestiges?
(Hover your cursor over Arcane Power and a description of the product revealing the inclusion of the "Vestige Pact" pops up)

What do folks think about them bringing the concept back?
Any hopes? Fears?
 

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darjr

I crit!
Cool. Didn't notice that. Note the little multiple choice 'What class are you'. Pretty obvious the outcome on man of those questions.
 

Almacov

First Post
Personally, while I loved the concept in 3.5's Tome of Magic and am happy to see it brought back, I worry as to how much flavour they'll lose in conversion, and I doubt they'll bring back the awesome and distinctive page look/art style or the goetic seals for all the vestiges.
That said, as long as the names and themes are recognizable, I'll be very happy to use the pact and loot as much of the flavour from the binder as I can for my games.
 

ppaladin123

Adventurer
Check out the package for the divine heroes minis. I know one of those minis...it's the old Cleric of St. Cuthbert. I think they just repainted it! :(
 

Almacov

First Post
Check out the package for the divine heroes minis. I know one of those minis...it's the old Cleric of St. Cuthbert. I think they just repainted it! :(

There are a number of repaints in the new player-oriented minis line. You'll also notice Aramil, the Bonded Fire Summoner, and Drow Sergeant if you look closely.
If you'd like to chat about those, feel free to fork a new thread or look for one of the older ones discussing it.

May as well keep this thread on topic. Does anyone have any vestiges they're particularly interested in seeing the implementation of? I think it'll be very interesting to see how they handle Karsus if they choose to bring him back.
 

Majoru Oakheart

Adventurer
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you don't make a pact with an individual vestige and will instead be a lot like an infernal pact. You make a pact with SOME sort of infernal thing.

They may list the names of some of them and some of the powers might be themed around the particular vestiges, but I'm going to guess you end up having a pact with ALL of the vestiges, essentially. Picking and choosing powers themed around any of them.
 

Almacov

First Post
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you don't make a pact with an individual vestige and will instead be a lot like an infernal pact. You make a pact with SOME sort of infernal thing.

They may list the names of some of them and some of the powers might be themed around the particular vestiges, but I'm going to guess you end up having a pact with ALL of the vestiges, essentially. Picking and choosing powers themed around any of them.

I had an inkling it might work like that too... but I've definitely got mixed feelings about the idea. I really hope they manage to maintain a certain amount of distinct identity for each of the vestiges, otherwise it may just feel like a bunch of disjointed and thematically disparate powers out of nowhere. Perhaps they'll be able to give specific mention and flavour regarding certain vestiges in the Daily powers. I hope they make liberal use of the stance mechanic, in any case.
 

ppaladin123

Adventurer
I had an inkling it might work like that too... but I've definitely got mixed feelings about the idea. I really hope they manage to maintain a certain amount of distinct identity for each of the vestiges, otherwise it may just feel like a bunch of disjointed and thematically disparate powers out of nowhere. Perhaps they'll be able to give specific mention and flavour regarding certain vestiges in the Daily powers. I hope they make liberal use of the stance mechanic, in any case.


I'm hoping that there are at least a couple of paragon paths dedicated to particular patron vestiges (like with the Scion of Dantalion and the Tenebrous Apostate prestige classes in Tome of Magic).

I'll second that desire to see heavy use of the stance mechanic to summon particular vestiges. Maybe each daily power can focus on a different entity.

I'd honestly have preferred a seperate binder class but I hold out hope that this can be implemented in an interesting/flavorful way as part of the warlock class.
 

Rechan

Adventurer
I bet they just have powers named after certain vestiges.

Although I do think varying the Pact Boon depending on what Vestige could possibly work.

One thing I hope: we get some Warlock melee powers. And possibly powers that feel like they've got secondary effects (like how some vestiges granted healing, etc); a warlock could become a secondary leader or defender, instead of a secondary controller.
 

Cadfan

First Post
I'm expecting the main pact to be rather generic. Hopefully the paragon paths associated with it will have the same highly specific benefits that made pact magic so interesting in 3e.
 

I'm expecting the main pact to be rather generic. Hopefully the paragon paths associated with it will have the same highly specific benefits that made pact magic so interesting in 3e.

Honestly, when I started reading the Star Pact powers (particularly the ones from the Dragon article), I had the inkling that the Vestige Pact was effectively folded into it, and that any flavor of separate vestiges was just fluff.

Still, I figured the best way to fully convert the Binder was to make a Paragon Path (as you mentioned) that gave out the various abilities (or abilities that kept the same theme) for each of the Vestiges in ToM. Or even Rituals that let you swap out Encounter/Utility/Daily powers for new Vestige abilities.

My real favorite part of the Binder in all was the unique fluff, the signs, and the various Vestiges themselves. I have my doubts that a new Warlock Pact will really feel the same as the Binder, or at most be a shadow of its former nifty'ness, and that makes me sad.

Oh well, I have to give them credit for trying.
 

Kaodi

Adventurer
Well, it would probably be fairly simple to make a feat for each of the Vestiges, swiping the Cleric's strategy for differentiation.
 

Shroomy

Adventurer
I'm hoping that there are at least a couple of paragon paths dedicated to particular patron vestiges (like with the Scion of Dantalion and the Tenebrous Apostate prestige classes in Tome of Magic).

I'll second that desire to see heavy use of the stance mechanic to summon particular vestiges. Maybe each daily power can focus on a different entity.

I'd honestly have preferred a seperate binder class but I hold out hope that this can be implemented in an interesting/flavorful way as part of the warlock class.

I like the stance idea; it definitely works for the barbarian and warden daily powers. Powers with the Summoning keyword would also be another interesting route.

So Vestige Pact, Constitution or Charisma?
 

Almacov

First Post
So Vestige Pact, Constitution or Charisma?

Perhaps a mix, like Star Pact.
The Binder class always claimed to key off of both of them, but to be honest it seemed like Charisma was used far more often than Constitution.

I like the idea of feats tied to specific vestiges, but I don't think it'll happen outside of homebrew material.

The ritual mechanic would be a helpful way to implement things, but again, I feel doubtful that it will be used for Vestige negotiations in any official material.

In terms of Paragon Paths, it should be very interesting to see what they do. I for one look forward to seeing an Epic Destiny that lets you gradually become an enigmatic vestige.
 

Cadfan

First Post
My real favorite part of the Binder in all was the unique fluff, the signs, and the various Vestiges themselves. I have my doubts that a new Warlock Pact will really feel the same as the Binder, or at most be a shadow of its former nifty'ness, and that makes me sad.

Oh well, I have to give them credit for trying.
Yeah. The binder was cool because it was so incredibly intertwined with the setting and the mythology of the game. I'm not sure they'll do that again.
 

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