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<blockquote data-quote="Theo R Cwithin" data-source="post: 4847199" data-attributes="member: 75712">I like the idea just for consistency.&nbsp; It's funny that ASF is d%, while the rest of the game uses a d20 mechanic.ASF by RAW isn't really level dependent, so using Spellcraft - which is level dependent - would make heavier armor/encumbrance more manageable at higher levels.&nbsp; It opens the door for sorcs eventually running around with heavy armor, shield and heavy pack, offset by high ranks in Spellcraft.&nbsp; If that's your intent, cool <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool&nbsp; &nbsp; :cool:"&nbsp; data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" />I'm inclined to just use a straight DEX check - even though it's certainly not very &quot;magical&quot;!&nbsp; Just be sure to remember the max DEX limits for armor and encumbrance.&nbsp; It's easy enough to convert the ASF% to DC on a 5% to +1 basis (ie, chainmail, at 30%, gives a +6 on the DC).&nbsp; Also impose a (not quite arbitrary) +2 for medium encumbrance, or +4 for heavy enc. Set base DC to 0. Bards get a +4 bonus to their roll as a class feature.&nbsp; Here's a table of modifiers to the DC:[sblock](sorry, bad formatting <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/blush.png"&nbsp; class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":blush:" title="Blush&nbsp; &nbsp; :blush:" data-shortname=":blush:" /> )[code]----------&nbsp; &nbsp; ------&nbsp; &nbsp; -----------&nbsp; &nbsp; ---------Armor&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ASF %&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Armor Type&nbsp; &nbsp; ASF DC----------&nbsp; &nbsp; ------&nbsp; &nbsp; -----------&nbsp; &nbsp; ---------Padded&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5%&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Light&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +1Leather&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 10%&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Light&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +2Studded&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 15%&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Light&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +3Chain Shirt&nbsp; &nbsp; 20%&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Light&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +4Hide&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 20%&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Medium&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +4Breastplate&nbsp; &nbsp; 25%&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Medium&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +5Scalemail&nbsp; &nbsp; 25%&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Medium&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +5Chainmail&nbsp; &nbsp; 30%&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Medium&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +6Banded Mail&nbsp; &nbsp; 35%&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Heavy&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +7Full Plate&nbsp; &nbsp; 35%&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Heavy&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +7Half Plate&nbsp; &nbsp; 40%&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Heavy&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +8Splint Mail&nbsp; &nbsp; 40%&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Heavy&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +8Buckler&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5%&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Shield&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +1Light Sh&nbsp; &nbsp; 5%&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Shield&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +1Heavy Sh&nbsp; &nbsp; 15%&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Shield&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +3Tower Sh&nbsp; &nbsp; 50%&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Shield&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +10-------------&nbsp; &nbsp; --------Encumbrance&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ASF DC-------------&nbsp; &nbsp; --------light&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +0medium&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +2heavy&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +4[/code][/sblock]So, some sample DCs are:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul"> no armor, no enc = DC 0</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul"> leather (10% ASF), med enc = DC 2 + 2 = DC 4</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul"> padded armor (5% ASF), light enc = DC 1 + 0 = DC 1</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul"> chainmail (30%), lt shield (5%), heavy enc = DC 6 + 1 + 4 = DC 11</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">no armor, heavy enc = DC 0 + 4 = DC 4</li>
</ul>&nbsp; This doesn't exactly mimic the ASW% outcomes, but it's more or less level independent: high dex decrease ASF chance, while the additional encumbrance constraint pushes ASF chance back up a little. Allows for a &quot;ditch the pack to lower the DC&quot; tactic.&nbsp; Problems with this:&nbsp; <ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">it overly rewards high dex (positive modifier) characters, so some characters never suffer ASF for some encumbrance and armor combinations.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">it penalizes low dex (negative modifier) characters, because it forces a check for every spell cast by clumsy characters, even if completely naked.&nbsp; This could be handwaved away, I suppose?</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">char has to track how heavy his pack (or other droppable items) are.&nbsp; Could just rule that dropping the pack lowers DC to just the DC due to armor (even though armor contributes greatly to enc?&nbsp; Oh well, it's not perfect..)</li>
</ul>&nbsp; Anyway, that's my thought. I've also thought about adding in a component to ASF related to how many magic items the character is carrying, kind of a magical &quot;interference&quot; to mess up spellcasters <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devil.png"&nbsp; class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":devil:" title="Devil&nbsp; &nbsp; :devil:" data-shortname=":devil:" />&nbsp; haven't worked it out yet, though.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Theo R Cwithin, post: 4847199, member: 75712"] I like the idea just for consistency. It's funny that ASF is d%, while the rest of the game uses a d20 mechanic. ASF by RAW isn't really level dependent, so using Spellcraft - which is level dependent - would make heavier armor/encumbrance more manageable at higher levels. It opens the door for sorcs eventually running around with heavy armor, shield and heavy pack, offset by high ranks in Spellcraft. If that's your intent, cool :cool: I'm inclined to just use a straight DEX check - even though it's certainly not very "magical"! Just be sure to remember the max DEX limits for armor and encumbrance. It's easy enough to convert the ASF% to DC on a 5% to +1 basis (ie, chainmail, at 30%, gives a +6 on the DC). Also impose a (not quite arbitrary) +2 for medium encumbrance, or +4 for heavy enc. Set base DC to 0. Bards get a +4 bonus to their roll as a class feature. Here's a table of modifiers to the DC: [sblock](sorry, bad formatting :blush: ) [code]---------- ------ ----------- --------- Armor ASF % Armor Type ASF DC ---------- ------ ----------- --------- Padded 5% Light +1 Leather 10% Light +2 Studded 15% Light +3 Chain Shirt 20% Light +4 Hide 20% Medium +4 Breastplate 25% Medium +5 Scalemail 25% Medium +5 Chainmail 30% Medium +6 Banded Mail 35% Heavy +7 Full Plate 35% Heavy +7 Half Plate 40% Heavy +8 Splint Mail 40% Heavy +8 Buckler 5% Shield +1 Light Sh 5% Shield +1 Heavy Sh 15% Shield +3 Tower Sh 50% Shield +10 ------------- -------- Encumbrance ASF DC ------------- -------- light +0 medium +2 heavy +4[/code][/sblock] So, some sample DCs are: [LIST] [*] no armor, no enc = DC 0 [*] leather (10% ASF), med enc = DC 2 + 2 = DC 4 [*] padded armor (5% ASF), light enc = DC 1 + 0 = DC 1 [*] chainmail (30%), lt shield (5%), heavy enc = DC 6 + 1 + 4 = DC 11 [*]no armor, heavy enc = DC 0 + 4 = DC 4 [/LIST] This doesn't exactly mimic the ASW% outcomes, but it's more or less level independent: high dex decrease ASF chance, while the additional encumbrance constraint pushes ASF chance back up a little. Allows for a "ditch the pack to lower the DC" tactic. Problems with this: [LIST] [*]it overly rewards high dex (positive modifier) characters, so [U][I]some characters never suffer ASF[/I][/U] for some encumbrance and armor combinations. [*]it penalizes low dex (negative modifier) characters, because [U][I]it forces a check for every spell cast by clumsy characters[/I][/U], even if completely naked. This could be handwaved away, I suppose? [*]char has to track how heavy his pack (or other droppable items) are. Could just rule that dropping the pack lowers DC to just the DC due to armor (even though armor contributes greatly to enc? Oh well, it's not perfect..) [/LIST] Anyway, that's my thought. I've also thought about adding in a component to ASF related to how many magic items the character is carrying, kind of a magical "interference" to mess up spellcasters :devil: haven't worked it out yet, though. [/QUOTE]

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