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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sylrae" data-source="post: 4849873" data-attributes="member: 48520">The "Wizards have better spells than everyone else", kindof makes sense if you only look at core. As soon as you include that massive spellbook, and the FR magic, etc, Clericsa become powerful battle-wizards who can cast in armor, buff themselves like the bard, and fight like the fighter.Clerics are particularly amazing if you go for planar spells. There are a number of them in the PHB, but if you look at Manual of the Planes, Book of Vile Darkness, Book of Exalted Deeds, and the Fiend Folios, they become quite scary.And since playing with only the SRD spells is something I dont enjoy, youve just made me realize that I think I need to look at the spell lists and assemble my own lists of who-gets what...I kindof like your rule, but I want them to have to make the checks whether proficient in it or not. If theyre not proficient in the armor, the DC should be much higher.However, Concentration may work as an outlet.So far we have.Bonuses:Concentration Check.Caster Level Check.Dex Check.Dc Adders:Conversion from spell fail % / Armor BonusEncumbermentSpell LevelNonproficiency Penalties</blockquote>