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<blockquote data-quote="Jack Simth" data-source="post: 2830915" data-attributes="member: 29252">That doesn't quite work out:(Emphasis added)So it takes you one day each to make those caster level 1, -1 level spell scrolls, each of which causes you to spend -1 xp and -12.5 gp, and is worth -25 gp (unless you make them at higher caster levels......).&nbsp; Going from level 1 to level 2 in this manner will take you 1,000 days, or about 3 years.&nbsp; Then, using your caster level of 2, you get -1 spell level scrolls at caster level 2 for an expenditure of -2 xp and -25 gp; to get the 2,000 xp to go from level 2 to level 3 will take you.... 1,000 days.&nbsp; So, to go up 19 levels (1st-20th) doing this, you need to spend 19,000 days crafting scrolls that are worth progressively less (a +1 caster level item, such as the Orange Prisim Ioun Stone, speeds things up, but only slightly).&nbsp; It runs about 52 years.&nbsp; A human Wizard could, depending on the prerequisites of the feats, start doing this at 1st level, but would be Venerable by the time the Wizard started adventuring (minimum starting age for a human wizard: 17; +19 levels from that abusive trick: 53 years; Venerable Human: 70 years).&nbsp; An Elf would *might* be middle aged.&nbsp; If you happen to have access to the Psionics handbook, an Elan would still be a normal adult.&nbsp; Of course, as a DM, if those happened to be on my list of allowable sources, a player attempting this logic would earn a quick thwap on the head with whatever book was biggest.Edit: Ah!&nbsp; Wands, at 5th level, would speed things up considerably; Wand's market price: 750 * spell * caster; stuck with a -1 level spell, tops, but a wand of Arcane Thesis Substituted Ray of Frost would grant you, at caster level 5, 1875 gp and 150 xp per wand; at one wand per day, it only takes 33 1/3 such to gain a level that way.&nbsp; As it scales, a caster level 6 wand of Arcane Thesis Substitued Ray of Frost would get more gp and XP, and would thus take the same number of days to reach the next level.&nbsp; So 5,000 days to get to 5th level, then 33 and 1/3rd days per level thereafter (call it 34).&nbsp; With a 365 day year, getting to 20th level takes 5000+34*15= 5,510 days, or about 15 years.&nbsp; And leaves you with 12.5 more GP than XP.Edit 2: And forgot the +2 caster level!&nbsp; Oy, I'm missing off ball today.&nbsp; So that -1st level scroll is valued at -75 gp, so 3 xp and 37.5 gp/day; 334 days to 1st level.&nbsp; Then you put out 4th caster level -1 spell level Rays of Frost(Acid) market at -100 gp, so 4 xp and 37.5 gp/day; 500 days to 2nd level.&nbsp; At 3rd, caster level 5th, 5 xp/day, 600 days; 4th, caster level 6th, 6 xp/day, 667 days.&nbsp; At 5th, take Craft Wand for caster level 7 wands of -1 spell level Rays of Frost (Acid) for market 5250, gain 210 xp/day, 23 days to level 6.&nbsp; Level 7Ah, spreadsheets....[sblock][code]Level&nbsp; &nbsp; Caster Level&nbsp; &nbsp; Item Value&nbsp; &nbsp; Materials&nbsp; &nbsp; XP&nbsp; &nbsp; Days to next level1&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; -75&nbsp; &nbsp; -37.5&nbsp; &nbsp; -3&nbsp; &nbsp; 333.33333332&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; -100&nbsp; &nbsp; -50&nbsp; &nbsp; -4&nbsp; &nbsp; 5003&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; -125&nbsp; &nbsp; -62.5&nbsp; &nbsp; -5&nbsp; &nbsp; 6004&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; -4500&nbsp; &nbsp; -2250&nbsp; &nbsp; -180&nbsp; &nbsp; 22.222222225&nbsp; &nbsp; 7&nbsp; &nbsp; -5250&nbsp; &nbsp; -2625&nbsp; &nbsp; -210&nbsp; &nbsp; 23.809523816&nbsp; &nbsp; 8&nbsp; &nbsp; -6000&nbsp; &nbsp; -3000&nbsp; &nbsp; -240&nbsp; &nbsp; 257&nbsp; &nbsp; 9&nbsp; &nbsp; -6750&nbsp; &nbsp; -3375&nbsp; &nbsp; -270&nbsp; &nbsp; 25.925925938&nbsp; &nbsp; 10&nbsp; &nbsp; -7500&nbsp; &nbsp; -3750&nbsp; &nbsp; -300&nbsp; &nbsp; 26.666666679&nbsp; &nbsp; 11&nbsp; &nbsp; -8250&nbsp; &nbsp; -4125&nbsp; &nbsp; -330&nbsp; &nbsp; 27.2727272710&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; -9000&nbsp; &nbsp; -4500&nbsp; &nbsp; -360&nbsp; &nbsp; 27.7777777811&nbsp; &nbsp; 13&nbsp; &nbsp; -9750&nbsp; &nbsp; -4875&nbsp; &nbsp; -390&nbsp; &nbsp; 28.2051282112&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; -10500&nbsp; &nbsp; -5250&nbsp; &nbsp; -420&nbsp; &nbsp; 28.5714285713&nbsp; &nbsp; 15&nbsp; &nbsp; -11250&nbsp; &nbsp; -5625&nbsp; &nbsp; -450&nbsp; &nbsp; 28.8888888914&nbsp; &nbsp; 16&nbsp; &nbsp; -12000&nbsp; &nbsp; -6000&nbsp; &nbsp; -480&nbsp; &nbsp; 29.1666666715&nbsp; &nbsp; 17&nbsp; &nbsp; -12750&nbsp; &nbsp; -6375&nbsp; &nbsp; -510&nbsp; &nbsp; 29.4117647116&nbsp; &nbsp; 18&nbsp; &nbsp; -13500&nbsp; &nbsp; -6750&nbsp; &nbsp; -540&nbsp; &nbsp; 29.6296296317&nbsp; &nbsp; 19&nbsp; &nbsp; -14250&nbsp; &nbsp; -7125&nbsp; &nbsp; -570&nbsp; &nbsp; 29.824561418&nbsp; &nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; -15000&nbsp; &nbsp; -7500&nbsp; &nbsp; -600&nbsp; &nbsp; 3019&nbsp; &nbsp; 21&nbsp; &nbsp; -15750&nbsp; &nbsp; -7875&nbsp; &nbsp; -630&nbsp; &nbsp; 30.1587301620&nbsp; &nbsp; 22&nbsp; &nbsp; -16500&nbsp; &nbsp; -8250&nbsp; &nbsp; -660&nbsp; &nbsp; 30.3030303&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1906.168006[/code][/sblock]Ah, ~1,906.168 days.&nbsp; Five years and a few months, to go from Wiz-1 to Wiz-20, assuming Arcane Thesis and Energy Substitution at 1st level.&nbsp; And incidentally, you have 12.5 * your XP in gp at any given point (but 25 gp * your XP in negative assets.... unless you burn them for warmth or something).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jack Simth, post: 2830915, member: 29252"] That doesn't quite work out: ([u]Emph[b]asis[/b][/u] added) So it takes you one day each to make those caster level 1, -1 level spell scrolls, each of which causes you to spend -1 xp and -12.5 gp, and is worth -25 gp (unless you make them at higher caster levels......). Going from level 1 to level 2 in this manner will take you 1,000 days, or about 3 years. Then, using your caster level of 2, you get -1 spell level scrolls at caster level 2 for an expenditure of -2 xp and -25 gp; to get the 2,000 xp to go from level 2 to level 3 will take you.... 1,000 days. So, to go up 19 levels (1st-20th) doing this, you need to spend 19,000 days crafting scrolls that are worth progressively less (a +1 caster level item, such as the Orange Prisim Ioun Stone, speeds things up, but only slightly). It runs about 52 years. A human Wizard could, depending on the prerequisites of the feats, start doing this at 1st level, but would be Venerable by the time the Wizard started adventuring (minimum starting age for a human wizard: 17; +19 levels from that abusive trick: 53 years; Venerable Human: 70 years). An Elf would *might* be middle aged. If you happen to have access to the Psionics handbook, an Elan would still be a normal adult. Of course, as a DM, if those happened to be on my list of allowable sources, a player attempting this logic would earn a quick thwap on the head with whatever book was biggest. Edit: Ah! Wands, at 5th level, would speed things up considerably; Wand's market price: 750 * spell * caster; stuck with a -1 level spell, tops, but a wand of Arcane Thesis Substituted Ray of Frost would grant you, at caster level 5, 1875 gp and 150 xp per wand; at one wand per day, it only takes 33 1/3 such to gain a level that way. As it scales, a caster level 6 wand of Arcane Thesis Substitued Ray of Frost would get more gp and XP, and would thus take the same number of days to reach the next level. So 5,000 days to get to 5th level, then 33 and 1/3rd days per level thereafter (call it 34). With a 365 day year, getting to 20th level takes 5000+34*15= 5,510 days, or about 15 years. And leaves you with 12.5 more GP than XP. Edit 2: And forgot the +2 caster level! Oy, I'm missing off ball today. So that -1st level scroll is valued at -75 gp, so 3 xp and 37.5 gp/day; 334 days to 1st level. Then you put out 4th caster level -1 spell level Rays of Frost(Acid) market at -100 gp, so 4 xp and 37.5 gp/day; 500 days to 2nd level. At 3rd, caster level 5th, 5 xp/day, 600 days; 4th, caster level 6th, 6 xp/day, 667 days. At 5th, take Craft Wand for caster level 7 wands of -1 spell level Rays of Frost (Acid) for market 5250, gain 210 xp/day, 23 days to level 6. Level 7 Ah, spreadsheets.... [sblock][code]Level Caster Level Item Value Materials XP Days to next level 1 3 -75 -37.5 -3 333.3333333 2 4 -100 -50 -4 500 3 5 -125 -62.5 -5 600 4 6 -4500 -2250 -180 22.22222222 5 7 -5250 -2625 -210 23.80952381 6 8 -6000 -3000 -240 25 7 9 -6750 -3375 -270 25.92592593 8 10 -7500 -3750 -300 26.66666667 9 11 -8250 -4125 -330 27.27272727 10 12 -9000 -4500 -360 27.77777778 11 13 -9750 -4875 -390 28.20512821 12 14 -10500 -5250 -420 28.57142857 13 15 -11250 -5625 -450 28.88888889 14 16 -12000 -6000 -480 29.16666667 15 17 -12750 -6375 -510 29.41176471 16 18 -13500 -6750 -540 29.62962963 17 19 -14250 -7125 -570 29.8245614 18 20 -15000 -7500 -600 30 19 21 -15750 -7875 -630 30.15873016 20 22 -16500 -8250 -660 30.3030303 1906.168006 [/code][/sblock] Ah, ~1,906.168 days. Five years and a few months, to go from Wiz-1 to Wiz-20, assuming Arcane Thesis and Energy Substitution at 1st level. And incidentally, you have 12.5 * your XP in gp at any given point (but 25 gp * your XP in negative assets.... unless you burn them for warmth or something). [/QUOTE]

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